What about Josh Allen?

[Across The Field]

Says a Browns fan

The dude just completed one of the best rookie seasons for a rookie QB ever, and did it with only 13 starts. This opinion is far from being just "from a Browns fan".

 

[carson]

The dude just completed one of the best rookie seasons for a rookie QB ever, and did it with only 13 starts. This opinion is far from being just "from a Browns fan".

That's great. Mayfield currently plays on the more talented team. I shouldn't have to point out that what these guys do as rookies doesn't mean the books have been written for what their careers will be. Allen may take a bit longer to get there, but I think he's got to longer career as an effective starter. You can disagree, but it better be an argument that is beyond, "Did you see what Baker did this year!?"

 

[Shanemansj13]

Browns fans getting hung up on rookie season stats is...comical. We could sit here all day and count the number of NFL QBs who looked promising as rookies. Mayfield is physically talented but clearly lacks maturity. That, and Mayfield thrives while on the move. It won't take long for D-Coordinators to scheme against his mobility and keep him inside the pocket.

See that's the thing, it isn't about the stats actually. I have watched him play all season and he has made plenty of throws in every game where you say, "Wow!". He can move just fine, he doesn't have elite quickness or speed but he is very slippery in the pocket. You don't need to have great athleticism to be great, as we have seen from a lot of QB's in this league.
LOL that is the thing, he can throw inside the pocket AND on the run.

I wasn't a fan of Mayfield either actually, I wanted the Browns to draft Darnold. After watching all these QB's play the two best rookies I have seen play are Darnold and Mayfield. Mayfield has elite accuracy and that is inside and outside the pocket.

 

[Across The Field]

That's great. Mayfield currently plays on the more talented team. I shouldn't have to point out that what these guys do as rookies doesn't mean the books have been written for what their careers will be. Allen may take a bit longer to get there, but I think he's got to longer career as an effective starter. You can disagree, but it better be an argument that is beyond, "Did you see what Baker did this year!?"

And what does your argument come from? Allen's 52.8% completion percentage? His 10/12 TD/INT ratio? Also, it isn't as if Baker was throwing to studs all over the place. He was getting big plays from guys like Breshad Perriman, Antonio Calloway, and Rashard Higgins. You can't honestly tell me these guys are significantly better than Zay Jones and Robert Foster.

 

[richig07]

He was very inaccurate in college too

Yeah, he's a project. I won't dispute that. However, his raw ability is special.

 

[Across The Field]

See that's the thing, it isn't about the stats actually. I have watched him play all season and he has made plenty of throws in every game where you say, "Wow!". He can move just fine, he doesn't have elite quickness or speed but he is very slippery in the pocket. You don't need to have great athleticism to be great, as we have seen from a lot of QB's in this league.
LOL that is the thing, he can throw inside the pocket AND on the run.

I wasn't a fan of Mayfield either actually, I wanted the Browns to draft Darnold. After watching all these QB's play the two best rookies I have seen play are Darnold and Mayfield. Mayfield has elite accuracy and that is inside and outside the pocket.

Mayfield makes decisions and throws that you'd expect from 10 year vets. 27 TD passes in 13 games is amazing for a rookie QB. And they weren't just dink and dunk plays, he had some of the most amazing TD passes in the entire league this year.

 

[Shanemansj13]

That's great. Mayfield currently plays on the more talented team. I shouldn't have to point out that what these guys do as rookies doesn't mean the books have been written for what their careers will be. Allen may take a bit longer to get there, but I think he's got to longer career as an effective starter. You can disagree, but it better be an argument that is beyond, "Did you see what Baker did this year!?"

You still just aren't getting it bc you obviously haven't watched him play. It's more than stats. He has the drive, the competitiveness/fire to go along with the work ethic and talent to be a great QB. I don't say that about a lot of guys, especially Browns QB's

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah, he's a project. I won't dispute that. However, his raw ability is special.

No doubt he has raw ability but that doesn't always translate to the NFL. He doesn't have the best team around him but that doesn't change the fact that he still can't make those key throws- with time, in that tight window. I see him more as Flacco. Big arm, accuracy is meh. But we will see in time.

 

[carson]

You still just aren't getting it bc you obviously haven't watched him play. It's more than stats. He has the drive, the competitiveness/fire to go along with the work ethic and talent to be a great QB. I don't say that about a lot of guys, especially Browns QB's

I've watched plenty of Mayfield. Did you catch the post where I admitted to watching Senior Bowl practices from last year? I mean, who the fuck does that?

 

[Shanemansj13]

I've watched plenty of Mayfield. Did you catch the post where I admitted to watching Senior Bowl practices from last year? I mean, who the fuck does that?

I could care less about Senior Bowl practices LOL

 

[carson]

And what does your argument come from? Allen's 52.8% completion percentage? His 10/12 TD/INT ratio? Also, it isn't as if Baker was throwing to studs all over the place. He was getting big plays from guys like Breshad Perriman, Antonio Calloway, and Rashard Higgins. You can't honestly tell me these guys are significantly better than Zay Jones and Robert Foster.

You conveniently left Landry and Njoku out of your argument.

I'll say this for the last time ... what they do as rookies does not define their entire careers. If that were the case, then Brady and Rodgers never get off the bench. Their both prospects right now. Defenses will adjust to their individual skill-sets and scheme to shut them down. It only gets more complicated from here for both. How each adjusts and can slow the game down in front of them will be tell-tale.

 

[carson]

I could care less about Senior Bowl practices LOL

Good for you. The point is you don't watch anymore football than I do.

 

[Across The Field]

You still just aren't getting it bc you obviously haven't watched him play. It's more than stats. He has the drive, the competitiveness/fire to go along with the work ethic and talent to be a great QB. I don't say that about a lot of guys, especially Browns QB's

I shouldn't have to point out that what these guys do as rookies doesn't mean the books have been written for what their careers will be.

Not only that, but this amount of success as a rookie QB is actually a really good indicator of future success. For example, look at the top rookie QB seasons of all-time. It's guys like Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan. RG3 and Dak are the only two who had top-10 rookie seasons who have floundered.

 

[Across The Field]

You conveniently left Landry and Njoku out of your argument.

I'll say this for the last time ... what they do as rookies does not define their entire careers. If that were the case, then Brady and Rodgers never get off the bench. Their both prospects right now. Defenses will adjust to their individual skill-sets and scheme to shut them down. It only gets more complicated from here for both. How each adjusts and can slow the game down in front of them will be tell-tale.

Landry was a good WR this year, but far from elite. Njoku has the potential, no doubt.

As I just pointed out, this level of elite success as a rookie QB is actually an excellent indicator of future success. Mayfield isn't a prospect anymore. He was a legit QB this year, especially when Hue and Haley were finally fired. He was top 5 in QBR once that change was made, and it's not like he went to playing for Bill Belichick. He made throws this year that you simply don't see from a rookie. Barring some sort of unseen collapse, there's nothing at all that would suggest he's going to not continue to just get better. And there sure as hell is nothing at all that would suggest Allen has a better long-term trajectory.

 

[Wamu]

That's great. Mayfield currently plays on the more talented team. I shouldn't have to point out that what these guys do as rookies doesn't mean the books have been written for what their careers will be. Allen may take a bit longer to get there, but I think he's got to longer career as an effective starter. You can disagree, but it better be an argument that is beyond, "Did you see what Baker did this year!?"

The more talented team? Mayfield went 6-7 as the starter. Before him the Browns had only won 6 of their previous 58 games.

Keep on trolling along.

 

[carson]

Landry was a good WR this year, but far from elite. Njoku has the potential, no doubt.

As I just pointed out, this level of elite success as a rookie QB is actually an excellent indicator of future success. Mayfield isn't a prospect anymore. He was a legit QB this year, especially when Hue and Haley were finally fired. He was top 5 in QBR once that change was made, and it's not like he went to playing for Bill Belichick. He made throws this year that you simply don't see from a rookie. Barring some sort of unseen collapse, there's nothing at all that would suggest he's going to not continue to just get better. And there sure as hell is nothing at all that would suggest Allen has a better long-term trajectory.

This is the beast take coming from Cleveland, this notion that Baker is doing shit we haven't seen in the NFL before. I know it's been a long time since the Browns were able to legit get excited about a QB, but that doesn't mean Baker Mayfield is some generational talent. He's got a strong arm, he's accurate, and he can scramble. He's also very immature, makes plenty of stupid throws, and not as effective when kept inside the pocket.

Again, we'll see.

 

[carson]

The more talent team? Mayfield went 6-7 as the starter. Before him the Browns had only won 6 of their previous 58 games.

Keep on trolling along.

What the Browns had/did before Mayfield became the starter has absolutely nothing to do with the Bills complete lack of quality personnel.

 

[Wamu]

What the Browns had/did before Mayfield became the starter has absolutely nothing to do with the Bills complete lack of quality personnel.

What the Browns had before Mayfield was an 0-16 record in '17. Went 1-15 in '16. And 3-13 in '15. The Bills went to the playoff last year. Your NFL knowledge is nonexistent.

 

[richig07]

No doubt he has raw ability but that doesn't always translate to the NFL. He doesn't have the best team around him but that doesn't change the fact that he still can't make those key throws- with time, in that tight window. I see him more as Flacco. Big arm, accuracy is meh. But we will see in time.

Well, he's in another world athletically to Flacco. However, I get the comparison.

 

[carson]

What the Browns had before Mayfield was an 0-16 record in '17. Went 1-15 in '16. And 3-13 in '15. The Bills went to the playoff last year. Your NFL knowledge is nonexistent.

Cause both teams totally rolled over exactly what they had last year into 2017.