What about Josh Allen?

[Stakesarehigh]

Imo he's looked better athletically than Mayfield. Mayfield sadly has the name image that stands out where as Allen doesn't, but Allen has been just as hot.

Probably the vastly superior passing statistics

Nah that can't be it.

 

[Across The Field]

This is the beast take coming from Cleveland, this notion that Baker is doing shit we haven't seen in the NFL before. I know it's been a long time since the Browns were able to legit get excited about a QB, but that doesn't mean Baker Mayfield is some generational talent. He's got a strong arm, he's accurate, and he can scramble. He's also very immature, makes plenty of stupid throws, and not as effective when kept inside the pocket.

Again, we'll see.

Dude, this is the take from the NFL, not just Cleveland. He is doing shit we haven't seen in the NFL before. Never before have we seen a rookie QB throw 27 TDs - and he did it in 3 fewer starts than the two previous record holders. Never have we seen a rookie come in and improve their team's record by 7 wins, and do it partly with literally the worst NFL HC since the merger. He made significantly more amazing throws than stupid throws this year. Very immature? Get a grip, dude. He spent his weeks in Cleveland doing amazing things to help the community off the field, and he was an unquestioned leader on it. Immature QBs don't succeed the way he has. I'm not putting him in the elite QB category yet, but you're a fool to think he's not on his way.

I also see you can't give a single rational explanation for your "Allen will be an effective starter for much longer" nonsense.

 

[Across The Field]

Cause both teams totally rolled over exactly what they had last year into 2017.

You're right. The Browns rolled over the worst HC in the entire NFL in many decades, but they did lose the best LT of this generation to retirement before this season.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Josh Allen being good would betray everything we know about QB's that have been good in the NFL.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Good for you. The point is you don't watch anymore football than I do.

Ok, good argument

 

[Across The Field]

What the Browns had/did before Mayfield became the starter has absolutely nothing to do with the Bills complete lack of quality personnel.

They were 2nd in the NFL in total defense. The Browns were also 9th in dropped passes this year while Buffalo was 20th. This wasn't a horrible team. The offensive personnel wasn't great, but it wasn't the worst.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I'm not saying Allen can't become serviceable but what recent QB (new rules last ten years) saw significant time as a rookie, had these kind of stats (allens)and then became Drew Brees.

Gotta be a short list

 

[Shanemansj13]

You conveniently left Landry and Njoku out of your argument.

I'll say this for the last time ... what they do as rookies does not define their entire careers. If that were the case, then Brady and Rodgers never get off the bench. Their both prospects right now. Defenses will adjust to their individual skill-sets and scheme to shut them down. It only gets more complicated from here for both. How each adjusts and can slow the game down in front of them will be tell-tale.

Landry is far from a #1 WR and he isn't a deep threat. If you would have watched him in Miami you would have known this. Njoku has awesome upside but he isn't quite there yet, he has been a good redzone target or jump balls.

 

[carson]

Dude, this is the take from the NFL, not just Cleveland. He is doing shit we haven't seen in the NFL before. Never before have we seen a rookie QB throw 27 TDs - and he did it in 3 fewer starts than the two previous record holders. Never have we seen a rookie come in and improve their team's record by 7 wins, and do it partly with literally the worst NFL HC since the merger. He made significantly more amazing throws than stupid throws this year. Very immature? Get a grip, dude. He spent his weeks in Cleveland doing amazing things to help the community off the field, and he was an unquestioned leader on it. Immature QBs don't succeed the way he has. I'm not putting him in the elite QB category yet, but you're a fool to think he's not on his way.

I also see you can't give a single rational explanation for your "Allen will be an effective starter for much longer" nonsense.

You're right, Baker is extremely rare and super special. We've never seen a guy at 6-feet tall, come into the league and complete gun-sling like he has. Because its not like the style of play in the NFL having become more geared toward the spread, passing attack, (not to mention all the new rules that work against defenses), has anything to do with rookies like Mayfield putting up rookie passing stats we haven't seen before.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Josh Allen being good would betray everything we know about QB's that have been good in the NFL.

It would be a huge turnaround for sure. If he does become a good QB, it looks to be 3-4 years down the road. This is what we expected though, coming into the draft he was the "project QB"

 

[Wamu]

You're right. The Browns rolled over the worst HC in the entire NFL in many decades, but they did lose the best LT of this generation to retirement before this season.

Hue's 3-36-1 record is the worst in NFL history for a coach w/ one team.

 

[carson]

Landry is far from a #1 WR and he isn't a deep threat. If you would have watched him in Miami you would have known this. Njoku has awesome upside but he isn't quite there yet, he has been a good redzone target or jump balls.

Baker has first round picks to throw to. Josh Allen's top target is UDFA Robert Foster. Stop trying to so hard to defend Baker Mayfield. I've already admitted he's a rare specimen. He'll bring infinite championships to the city of Cleveland. Have you seen his deep ball?

 

[Across The Field]

You're right, Baker is extremely rare and super special. We've never seen a guy at 6-feet tall, come into the league and complete gun-sling like he has. Because its not like the style of play in the NFL having become more geared toward the spread, passing attack, (not to mention all the new rules that work against defenses), has anything to do with rookies like Mayfield putting up rookie passing stats we haven't seen before.

Gunsling? Did you even watch him play this year? He's exceptionally accurate, especially for a rookie. He's not just chucking bombs and having WRs jump up and get them. He's not just checking down. He makes loads of elite NFL throws every single game.

Again - still no defense for your Josh Allen perspective. Keep avoiding it.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

It would be a huge turnaround for sure. If he does become a good QB, it looks to be 3-4 years down the road. This is what we expected though, coming into the draft he was the "project QB"

Yeah, but realistically, I think his ceiling is closer to that of an average QB. A Tiger doesn't change its stripes at its core. At least with Lamar one can point to him being highly productive in college.

 

[Across The Field]

Baker has first round picks to throw to. Josh Allen's top target is UDFA Robert Foster. Stop trying to so hard to defend Baker Mayfield. I've already admitted he's a rare specimen. He'll bring infinite championships to the city of Cleveland. Have you seen his deep ball?

Zay Jones was a high-2nd round pick (37th overall), and he also had 12 games with 1st round pick Kelvin Benjamin and couldn't figure out how to utilize him.

 

[carson]

Gunsling? Did you even watch him play this year? He's exceptionally accurate, especially for a rookie. He's not just chucking bombs and having WRs jump up and get them. He's not just checking down. He makes loads of elite NFL throws every single game.

Again - still no defense for your Josh Allen perspective. Keep avoiding it.

Josh Allen has a cannon for an arm and the size that makes him the prototypical pocket QB. I've looked into the crystal ball and a couple seasons from now, once NFL defenses have enough film to scheme against both, I see Josh Allen as being way more successful from inside a pocket than Baker Mayfield.

But...but... I know, Baker has impressive rookie stats.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Baker has first round picks to throw to. Josh Allen's top target is UDFA Robert Foster. Stop trying to so hard to defend Baker Mayfield. I've already admitted he's a rare specimen. He'll bring infinite championships to the city of Cleveland. Have you seen his deep ball?

Yes his deep ball is a hell of a lot better than Allen's lol. Defend? I see results. Baker is playing with a lot of rookies, may be talented, but their rookies and young guys. Njoku, Higgins, Chubb (rookie) and Callaway (rookie) are all 24 or under. Cmon man.

Stop defending a piss poor completion pct and lack of weapons. Tyrod won 9 games with this team and yes it's almost the exact same team.

 

[carson]

Zay Jones was a high-2nd round pick (37th overall), and he also had 12 games with 1st round pick Kelvin Benjamin and couldn't figure out how to utilize him.

lol, Zay Jones.

 

[carson]

Yes his deep ball is a hell of a lot better than Allen's lol. Defend? I see results. Baker is playing with a lot of rookies, may be talented, but their rookies and young guys. Njoku, Higgins, Chubb (rookie) and Callaway (rookie) are all 24 or under. Cmon man.

Stop defending a piss poor completion pct and lack of weapons. Tyrod won 9 games with this team and yes it's almost the exact same team.

So when Baker hits this sophomore slump, i supposed you'll all be blaming it on the fact the team didn't retain Freddie Kitchens.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Josh Allen has a cannon for an arm and the size that makes him the prototypical pocket QB. I've looked into the crystal ball and a couple seasons from now, once NFL defenses have enough film to scheme against both, I see Josh Allen as being way more successful from inside a pocket than Baker Mayfield.

But...but... I know, Baker has impressive rookie stats.

Cannon arms- below average accuracy don't always pan out...hate to tell ya but we will see. I am seeing the same thing as I did when Josh was in college. Missing open targets-easy throws, very very rarely he will make that Wow! throw, bad deep accuracy and inconsistency with going through WR progression. He is a project guy but to say he has more upside than Baker is crazy lol.