Series Thread: Your Texas Rangers at the Seattle Mariners 4/25 - 4/27

[WastinSomeTime]

RBI only show that guys like Machado are getting on base a lot in front of him.

I was just keeping it short and didn't want to throw all his other stats in.

 

[donaldson79]

Well the list just keeps on growing:

SEATTLE – The Rangers got the news they didn’t want on reliever LHP Pedro Figueroa Thursday: He has a torn ulnar collateral ligament in his left arm, along with damage to the flexor tendon in the arm.
The injury would require Tommy John surgery to repair and force him to miss at least a year.

The Rangers on Thursday sent Kouzmanoff to Dallas so that specialist Dr. Drew Dossett can determine the cause of persistent back stiffness. Kouzmanoff will miss the series opener at Seattle on Friday night and could join the procession to the disabled list.

 

[yardimatt]

Rangers just keep dropping like flies. The return of Beltre couldn't have happened at a better time and Kouz has more than held down the fort in his absence.

 

[jta4437]

Orioles designated hitter Nelson Cruz went 2 for 4 with two home runs and five RBI in his team's 10-8 win over the Blue Jays Wednesday.

Nellie has 10 games in the OF and 9 games as DH I believe. He is playing the outfield as well, but he is DH'ing. As a player he will play the position the manager pencils him in at on a daily basis and if its at DH he will play there and would have if in Texas. While he is a streaky guy, if he plays most of the season without injury, I would expect him to hit .260-.265 with 25-30 HR's and 90-100 RBI. I would take that production for 8 million all day long and the draft pick is relative to "moot" as who knows what kind of player that guy ends up being.

Question is will it put Baltimore over the top as a WS contender? HMM doubtful, but may have gone a long way in making Texas a real threat.

Cruz has his issues but you can't argue his production.

If the DH thing wasn't an issue why take 6 million a year less to play in the OF half the time? It obviously was an issue

At the end of the day, it was a poor decision on Cruz's part, and its working out for the Orioles, so far

 

[TheRangerDude]

[/quote =jta4437; 483 9006]If the DH thing wasn't an issue why take 6 million a year less to play in the OF half the time? It obviously was an issue

At the end of the day, it was a poor decision on Cruz's part, and its working out for the Orioles, so far[/quote]

I think you are still assuming the QO was still on the table when he signed with the O's... it was not. I do agree that he would get more OF time with the Os and if we counter offered something to him...playing the OF would have been something that he would have used to help decide.

The player has 7 or 9 days to accept the QO... If the reject it They become a FA... which requires a contract offer.

 

[gregrey972]

I know it was only one day, but man I missed having a local team to watch last night! Let's root for another DFW sweep tonight even if its only 2 teams.

 

[donaldson79]

If the DH thing wasn't an issue why take 6 million a year less to play in the OF half the time? It obviously was an issue

At the end of the day, it was a poor decision on Cruz's part, and its working out for the Orioles, so far

........Was thinking the same thing.

But I do wonder if there wasn't more to this story than we know. Not much on conspiracy theories, but it does make me wonder a little.

 

[donaldson79]

[/quote =jta4437; 483 9006]If the DH thing wasn't an issue why take 6 million a year less to play in the OF half the time? It obviously was an issue

At the end of the day, it was a poor decision on Cruz's part, and its working out for the Orioles, so far

I think you are still assuming the QO was still on the table when he signed with the O's... it was not. I do agree that he would get more OF time with the Os and if we counter offered something to him...playing the OF would have been something that he would have used to help decide.

The player has 7 or 9 days to accept the QO... If the reject it They become a FA... which requires a contract offer.[/QUOTE]

Now that I've already responded to jta.....you've got a very good point. And I'm going to admit, I thought Cruz would get a 3 year offer for $35 mil +. So him turning away from our offer didn't surprise me at all.

 

[jta4437]

[/quote =jta4437; 483 9006]If the DH thing wasn't an issue why take 6 million a year less to play in the OF half the time? It obviously was an issue

At the end of the day, it was a poor decision on Cruz's part, and its working out for the Orioles, so far

I think you are still assuming the QO was still on the table when he signed with the O's... it was not. I do agree that he would get more OF time with the Os and if we counter offered something to him...playing the OF would have been something that he would have used to help decide.

The player has 7 or 9 days to accept the QO... If the reject it They become a FA... which requires a contract offer.[/QUOTE]

No I'm not assuming that, he should have taken the QO, that was stupid on his part, he was never going to get much more than that

So playing in the OF some was worth 6 million to him? if it was he's a moron

 

[TheRangerDude]

Look up Others Batting in, and it will explain better what I am trying to point out with RBI being obsolete. RBI tells me little but that the guy had a favorable outcome with guys on base.

Who are the real 'RBI guys?' - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN

Nice article and I will stand corrected. This is a much more thorough way to look at it than what I proposed. I still want to look into it a little harder but this makes a very good clear argument for what you are saying. As with most studies like this though... There are likely a few exceptions but overall it does seems RBI are actually a result of where you bat.

 

[donaldson79]

Rangers just keep dropping like flies. The return of Beltre couldn't have happened at a better time and Kouz has more than held down the fort in his absence.

For crying out loud, will it never end this season?

But what if, we get some of the walking wounded back - Harrison, Holland, Profar, Feliz, etc - for the 2nd half and spank? What kind of national feel-good-story would this be?

 

[donaldson79]

Nice article and I will stand corrected. This is a much more thorough way to look at it than what I proposed. I still want to look into it a little harder but this makes a very good clear argument for what you are saying. As with most studies like this though... There are likely a few exceptions but overall it does seems RBI are actually a result of where you bat.

How about that Michael Young?

 

[donaldson79]

I honestly, truly thought Cruz would get 3 years. Honestly. He was/is a very good RBI man, and there just weren't many available in the off season. I thought this alone would give him some decent bargaining power.

Obviously I was wrong. And you're also correct when stating it's still early and so much can happen.

I just hope what keeps happening for us isn't in the form of injuries.

 

[TheRangerDude]

JTA: "No I'm not assuming that, he should have taken the QO, that was stupid on his part, he was never going to get much more than that

So playing in the OF some was worth 6 million to him? if it was he's a moron" (stupid phone messed up the quoting system)

You said:

"If the DH thing wasn't an issue why take 6 million a year less to play in the OF half the time? It obviously was an issue"

This assumes both offers where on the table at once. Otherwise how would he be in a position to choose the 6 million dollar less deal or take it over anything. Also, how was he to know the O's would come along and offer a part time OF deal for $6M less than the QO? He and his agent were both expecting higher offers, I don't recall many fans or columnist being to shocked when he rejected the offer- at the time, there were not many that foresaw how badly that draft pick would effect his value. I am sure if both offers were on the table at the same time, he obviously would have stayed here for more money. Did he make a mistake? Sure, but does that make him a moron... If it does, we are all morons.

 

[Duane1952]

MLB has clarified the transfer rule.

 

[jta4437]

JTA: "No I'm not assuming that, he should have taken the QO, that was stupid on his part, he was never going to get much more than that

So playing in the OF some was worth 6 million to him? if it was he's a moron" (stupid phone messed up the quoting system)

You said:

"If the DH thing wasn't an issue why take 6 million a year less to play in the OF half the time? It obviously was an issue"

This assumes both offers where on the table at once. Otherwise how would he be in a position to choose the 6 million dollar less deal or take it over anything. Also, how was he to know the O's would come along and offer a part time OF deal for $6M less than the QO? He and his agent were both expecting higher offers, I don't recall many fans or columnist being to shocked when he rejected the offer- at the time, there were not many that foresaw how badly that draft pick would effect his value. I am sure if both offers were on the table at the same time, he obviously would have stayed here for more money. Did he make a mistake? Sure, but does that make him a moron... If it does, we are all morons.

The only offer I could've possibly seen for Cruz once there was a QO on the table was maybe a 2 year deal from the Rangers for around 24 million, that was top of the market for me, or begrudgingly accept the original QO deal for 1 year (but probably less) to DH... I don't know what the Rangers ultimately offered other than the QO off the top of my head, but I'm sure it wasn't more than 14 million and probably more than 8 million

Him refusing the QO was stupid on his part, him and his agent seriously overplayed their hand there, I said that from the beginning

Look I actually like Nelson Cruz, believe it or not, almost always have rooted for him, but I'm also a realist and honest about who he is, I'm no apologist... I was the same way with Michael Young

 

[yardimatt]

For crying out loud, will it never end this season?

But what if, we get some of the walking wounded back - Harrison, Holland, Profar, Feliz, etc - for the 2nd half and spank? What kind of national feel-good-story would this be?

The story will write itself if/when we win the division and make the playoffs!

 

[Nightcrawler]

Well the list just keeps on growing:

SEATTLE – The Rangers got the news they didn’t want on reliever LHP Pedro Figueroa Thursday: He has a torn ulnar collateral ligament in his left arm, along with damage to the flexor tendon in the arm.
The injury would require Tommy John surgery to repair and force him to miss at least a year.

The Rangers on Thursday sent Kouzmanoff to Dallas so that specialist Dr. Drew Dossett can determine the cause of persistent back stiffness. Kouzmanoff will miss the series opener at Seattle on Friday night and could join the procession to the disabled list.

This is bullshit, when will it stop?

 

[TheRangerDude]

The only offer I could've possibly seen for Cruz once there was a QO on the table was maybe a 2 year deal from the Rangers for around 24 million, that was top of the market for me, or begrudgingly accept the original QO deal for 1 year (but probably less) to DH... I don't know what the Rangers ultimately offered other than the QO off the top of my head, but I'm sure it wasn't more than 14 million and probably more than 8 million

Him refusing the QO was stupid on his part, him and his agent seriously overplayed their hand there, I said that from the beginning

Look I actually like Nelson Cruz, believe it or not, almost always have rooted for him, but I'm also a realist and honest about who he is, I'm no apologist... I was the same way with Michael Young

I don't know that we ever made another offer to him while he was a FA. After we signed Choo, JD said we were pretty much out on Cruz and that he expected him to sign elsewhere. The way things played out, it seems like that was really the case. This, of course, is another assumption as well. I feel like if we had made a similar offer, he would have stayed here but I think at that point we had already committed to Moreland and were at or over our budget for the season.

Still, I wouldn't say he was stupid for rejecting the QO. He just took a risk and it didn't work out to his favor. Even if he had signed with the Rangers for what you projected- that would be worth rejecting the offer. Perhaps it wouldn't be the same amount per year but it is more guaranteed money.

 

[jta4437]

I don't know that we ever made another offer to him while he was a FA. After we signed Choo, JD said we were pretty much out on Cruz and that he expected him to sign elsewhere. The way things played out, it seems like that was really the case. This, of course, is another assumption as well. I feel like if we had made a similar offer, he would have stayed here but I think at that point we had already committed to Moreland and were at or over our budget for the season.

Still, I wouldn't say he was stupid for rejecting the QO. He just took a risk and it didn't work out to his favor. Even if he had signed with the Rangers for what you projected- that would be worth rejecting the offer. Perhaps it wouldn't be the same amount per year but it is more guaranteed money.

I think he (and his agent) was stupid b/c he didn't know his value or lack thereof (ESPECIALLY with the QO) yet just about every baseball person out there did, and thats why he had to settle on the Baltimore deal, who only offered him the deal b/c the draft pick compensation was lessend by having already signed Jimenez