Would you trade up for Sammy Watkins?

[NinerSickness]

Just like you think Sanchez would be better for the 49ers then Kap. LOL

Just like you make shit like this up to be annoying.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I rather have a guy you can trust and play for your franchise for a long time instead of having a New QB every 2-3 years with avg QBs. We don't know what the number will be for Kap. Right now we think 18 million. What if he gets 16 million a year. Is that a better number for you. Seattle fans will have the same problem next year. Wilson will at least get 16-18 million. He has a Super Bowl ring even though he didn't do much. Defense won that championship.

Just so we are on the same page, u think its better to draft a QB every 3-4 years and then trade them when their rookie contract comes up so we don't have to pay a big price for the most important position.

You aren't a very good reader. You incorrectly restated Sickness' argument. I was simply correcting you, and basically restated his argument in a more accurate fashion. I don't agree with Sick's argument, but I don't think it's the ridiculous position you are making it out to be.

I think we should try to re-sign Kaepernick, but I think $18 million a year is too much, particularly because of his current salary. He may not get $18 million; if he gets $14-16 million, I would be much more comfortable. Based on what I have seen and heard, there's a pretty good chance he'll be over $18 million.

Obviously turning over a QB every three to four years is a mistake. But so is overpaying a mediocre QB. Right now, that's what Kap is. He's had his moments, to be sure, but this past year he struggled when he had to carry the team with his arm. And this team has not asked him to do nearly as much as other teams ask of their QBs. If he doesn't continue to improve, he's not worth the contract he's reportedly asking for, and the team would be better off moving on. If he does improve, even $18 million could prove to be cheap. But I have serious concerns about his improvement after he showed very little growth last year.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

And while I think Kap has more upside than Wilson, I have little doubt that Kap would not have done as much with Seattle as Wilson did. He would have struggled immensely playing behind that OL through the middle of the year. Wilson wasn't lighting it up, but he was doing enough to keep racking up wins despite terrible blocking in front of him.

 

[NinerSickness]

I have little doubt that Kap would not have done as much with Seattle as Wilson did.

Let's see.

Better WRs: Tie (first Seattle then 49ers in the postseason)
Better TE: 49ers by a mile
Better OL: 49ers by a mile
Better RB corps: Seahawks - not by much

Why is it Kaepernick would have done more than Wilson?

 

[darken65]

Let's see.

Better WRs: Tie (first Seattle then 49ers in the postseason)
Better TE: 49ers by a mile
Better OL: 49ers by a mile
Better RB corps: Seahawks - not by much

Why is it Kaepernick would have done more than Wilson?

Read what Crimson posted one more time..............

 

[darken65]

Let's see.

Better WRs: Tie (first Seattle then 49ers in the postseason)
Better TE: 49ers by a mile
Better OL: 49ers by a mile
Better RB corps: Seahawks - not by much

Why is it Kaepernick would have done more than Wilson?

I'm not sure he meant that Kap would have done better.

 

[NinerSickness]

Read what Crimson posted one more time..............

Oops. My mistake. Got mixed up on the double negative.

Sorry Crimson. Carry on. Thanks darken.

 

[darken65]

Oops. My mistake. Got mixed up on the double negative.

Sorry Crimson. Carry on. Thanks darken.

Welcome

 

[purguy12]

True about the going rate for a quality QB. Kap has been a starter for one full season. Why does he merit 18 mil? RW will get some money because he has a ring and didn't fuck up at the end of playoff games. Can you say the same thing about Kap? I will give him the season to see if he gets any better and judge him then but I won't say he is worth top QB money now.

That's fair

 

[purguy12]

You aren't a very good reader. You incorrectly restated Sickness' argument. I was simply correcting you, and basically restated his argument in a more accurate fashion. I don't agree with Sick's argument, but I don't think it's the ridiculous position you are making it out to be.

I think we should try to re-sign Kaepernick, but I think $18 million a year is too much, particularly because of his current salary. He may not get $18 million; if he gets $14-16 million, I would be much more comfortable. Based on what I have seen and heard, there's a pretty good chance he'll be over $18 million.

Obviously turning over a QB every three to four years is a mistake. But so is overpaying a mediocre QB. Right now, that's what Kap is. He's had his moments, to be sure, but this past year he struggled when he had to carry the team with his arm. And this team has not asked him to do nearly as much as other teams ask of their QBs. If he doesn't continue to improve, he's not worth the contract he's reportedly asking for, and the team would be better off moving on. If he does improve, even $18 million could prove to be cheap. But I have serious concerns about his improvement after he showed very little growth last year.

He isn't a mediocre QB. He is a Top 10 QB that wins. Look I don't want to pay 18 mill either but that is the rate for starting QBs. I would like for him to take 16 million for good faith. Will that happen who knows. I think injury to Crabtree was a main reason for growth. I think overall Kap got better last year. Maybe not as much as people wanted but How I look at it he jumped ahead of a couple QBs. One being RG3 and Dalton.

 

[badazzk9]

He is a mediocre QB. He is a Top 10 QB in runs. Look I don't want to pay 18 mill either because that is the rate for Elite QBs or mistakes GMs made. I would like for him to take 0million for good faith. Will that happen yes he is under contract this coming year. I think injury to Crabtree was a main reason for excuse. I think overall Kap got better than a shit sandwich last year. Maybe not as much as people wanted but How I look with my eyes closed at it he jumped ahead of a couple QBs. One being RG3 and DaltonI? I'm puryguy12?

Fixed it for you.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Let's see.

Better WRs: Tie (first Seattle then 49ers in the postseason)
Better TE: 49ers by a mile
Better OL: 49ers by a mile
Better RB corps: Seahawks - not by much

Why is it Kaepernick would have done more than Wilson?

Not my clearest sentence ever. I think Kap would have really struggled behind that OL. They were awful for about eight or ten games in the middle of the season, and I think Wilson is uniquely able to play behind that sort of OL with his ability to extend the play. Kap would have been running constantly.

Having said that, I think the Hawks RB corps was markedly better than ours. Especially toward the end of the year. Now, to be fair, Gore got hurt against the Hawks and clearly wasn't playing the way he should have been, and Miller was out, but our running game was basically nonexistent late in the year. And Lynch was doing it behind a mediocre (generously) OL.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

He isn't a mediocre QB. He is a Top 10 QB that wins. Look I don't want to pay 18 mill either but that is the rate for starting QBs. I would like for him to take 16 million for good faith. Will that happen who knows. I think injury to Crabtree was a main reason for growth. I think overall Kap got better last year. Maybe not as much as people wanted but How I look at it he jumped ahead of a couple QBs. One being RG3 and Dalton.

$18 million is not the going rate for starting QBs. It's the going rate for good starting QBs who have reached the end of their contracts. Kap doesn't fit into that category. He's under contract for less than a million this next year, and we can franchise him for what will probably be a bit less than $18 million the following year. That drastically reduces his bargaining power.

Kap was better than RGIII and Dalton by the end of last year. Both players arguably regressed this past year anyway, so leap-frogging them is not much of an accomplishment. If Kap improved this year, it was minimal. I hope it was just a "sophomore" slump, but he doesn't have much track record, so it's really tough to say. He is a limited passer right now, who makes up for a lot of shortcomings with his physical talent. He can't make a career of that.

 

[purguy12]

$18 million is not the going rate for starting QBs. It's the going rate for good starting QBs who have reached the end of their contracts. Kap doesn't fit into that category. He's under contract for less than a million this next year, and we can franchise him for what will probably be a bit less than $18 million the following year. That drastically reduces his bargaining power.

Kap was better than RGIII and Dalton by the end of last year. Both players arguably regressed this past year anyway, so leap-frogging them is not much of an accomplishment. If Kap improved this year, it was minimal. I hope it was just a "sophomore" slump, but he doesn't have much track record, so it's really tough to say. He is a limited passer right now, who makes up for a lot of shortcomings with his physical talent. He can't make a career of that.

Well what do you mean good because Romo and Cutler got that and they haven't done anything.

 

[whysies]

Well what do you mean good because Romo and Cutler got that and they haven't done anything.

It would be nice if you would stop equating team success to QB success. No doubt those things are regularly intertwined on some level but at some extremes they can almost be mutually exclusive as well.

Not blowing timeouts/taking horrible delay of game penalties and not running away from ghosts when all you have to do is step up in the pocket are just as much crucial aspects of QB play as "winning," whatever that means.

 

[AU_Fever]

Well what do you mean good because Romo and Cutler got that and they haven't done anything.

Matt Ryan hasn't done much in the post-season except for the win against Seattle at home. Do you think Kap is a better QB than Ryan? It's not even close! Ryan is a better pocket passer than Kap. Again, Kap's biggest asset is his athleticism and his ability to run. As someone mentioned, he cannot continue making a living with just his legs. He has to improve as a passer! I really hope that he works at it to become a very good QB.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Well what do you mean good because Romo and Cutler got that and they haven't done anything.

They haven't done anything in the post season. They have put up good passing numbers in the regular season, and they have been relied upon to carry their teams to a far greater extent than Kap has. But hey, I think those guys were grossly overpaid. That's the situation I'm trying to avoid with Kap. And again, those guys were at the ends of their contracts, and were already making significant annual salaries. They had leverage that Kap does not.

 

[purguy12]

Matt Ryan hasn't done much in the post-season except for the win against Seattle at home. Do you think Kap is a better QB than Ryan? It's not even close! Ryan is a better pocket passer than Kap. Again, Kap's biggest asset is his athleticism and his ability to run. As someone mentioned, he cannot continue making a living with just his legs. He has to improve as a passer! I really hope that he works at it to become a very good QB.

Nope I think Matt Ryan is better but he also has made it to the NFC Championship game. Cutler and Romo Nothing. Romo also has had great weapons.

Im sorry but winning is everything. These 2 guys haven't done much. When was the last time Romo made the playoffs?

 

[purguy12]

They haven't done anything in the post season. They have put up good passing numbers in the regular season, and they have been relied upon to carry their teams to a far greater extent than Kap has. But hey, I think those guys were grossly overpaid. That's the situation I'm trying to avoid with Kap. And again, those guys were at the ends of their contracts, and were already making significant annual salaries. They had leverage that Kap does not.

Yes but again that is the going rate. Every Qb looks at other QBs contract. Kaps agent is gong to use that info. Now if Kap gets Flacco's salary then I will flip but right now we have no idea what he will get. No need to go back a forth on something we have no clue about right now.

Romo and Cutler can have the regular season stats, Kap has done it when it means the most and with the most pressure. I rather pay him then those 2 who cant handle pressure.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yes but again that is the going rate. Every Qb looks at other QBs contract. Kaps agent is gong to use that info. Now if Kap gets Flacco's salary then I will flip but right now we have no idea what he will get. No need to go back a forth on something we have no clue about right now.

Romo and Cutler can have the regular season stats, Kap has done it when it means the most and with the most pressure. I rather pay him then those 2 who cant handle pressure.

Please pay attention. It is the going rate for guys entering FA. Kap is not entering FA. He is under contract for less than $1 million. That drastically reduces his bargaining power.

The benefit of Kap's winning - at least so far as his bargaining power goes - is mitigated by the fact that Alex Smith also won with this same team. Smith's success STRONGLY suggests that Kap is not the primary reason that the team has performed well.

And while Romo has not won, he received his new contract coming off a season in which he carried his team. He threw for 4,903 yards and 28 TDs in 2012. That's 53% more yards and 33% more TDs than Kaepernick had this year. Romo has decent weapons, primarily in Bryant and Witten, but that's about it. The year of his contract extension, PFF ranked his OL 22nd, and 26th in pass blocking. Murray is a good back, but he can't stay healthy. In 2012, they ranked 31st in rushing yards and tied for 27th in rushing TDs. The defense was 19th in yards and 25th in points. Romo was the offense on that team. Hell, in 2012, he was that team. The same can hardly be said of Kaepernick.

Cutler hasn't produced as much as Romo, but he still had 40 more YPG than Kap this year, a completion percentage five points higher, and averaged almost a half-TD more a game. Not to mention he took almost one sack less a game than Kaepernick despite a better OL. Cutler's contract is also fairly team friendly, very easy for them to get out of after three years. Even so, the Bears' decision to give Cutler that much money is one of the great mysteries, IMO.