WIlly Adames Your new 3rd Baseman?Shortstop? Reports Say 7 @ 182 and 22 singing Bonus.

[calsnowskier]

At PacBell (yes it will always be that to me) it's not so much the distances as the heavier cooler air all season at night

It's a real effect

We need a Tony Gwynn or Ichiro type hitter at the Cove.

Or a Barry Bonds type, of course…

 

[LHG]

Baseball drafts aren’t like the others, not as impactful. If it’s a difference maker like Adames or Burnes you do it. What you don’t do it for? Is Michael Tucker

A strong draft helps stock the system and a team with a good one can both restock the team and trade for need. See the Dodgers. If the Giants can pull that off while sacrificing picks, then that is great. I’m just not excited about the idea of building a team around free agents and letting the farm go barren. We won’t be getting prospects in trades right now and we won’t be getting many players on the draft either.
To the point of my post, since we have Adames, we shouldn’t be half hearted on the market now. Get Burnes. Just not excited about next year’s draft and how it will impact the farm.

 

[filosofy29]

A strong draft helps stock the system and a team with a good one can both restock the team and trade for need. See the Dodgers. If the Giants can pull that off while sacrificing picks, then that is great. I’m just not excited about the idea of building a team around free agents and letting the farm go barren. We won’t be getting prospects in trades right now and we won’t be getting many players on the draft either.
To the point of my post, since we have Adames, we shouldn’t be half hearted on the market now. Get Burnes. Just not excited about next year’s draft and how it will impact the farm.

We are in agreement

 

[calsnowskier]

The ‘10-‘14 run was built through the draft…

Posey
Crawford
Bum
Timmeh
Cain
Panik
Romo
Durty
Belt
Pence (through ToJo)
Franchez (through Alderson)
Scutaro (through Culberson)
Loprez (through Bowker and Martinez)

 

[filosofy29]

The ‘10-‘14 run was built through the draft…

Posey
Crawford
Bum
Timmeh
Cain
Panik
Romo
Durty
Belt
Pence (through ToJo)
Franchez (through Alderson)
Scutaro (through Culberson)
Loprez (through Bowker and Martinez)

Right. But what did the draft build all the other years we didn’t win? My point wasn’t that the draft isn’t important, it’s just more of a crapshoot than other sports. My only point was, if you are going to forfeit a draft pick, just make sure the juice is worth the squeeze. I.e. not Michael Tucker.

 

[tzill]

Greatest seasons by a SF SS with Adames mixed in:

1. Rich Aurilia, 2001 (6.7 WAR)
2 (t.) Brandon Crawford, 2021 (6.1)
2 (t.) Chris Speier, 1972 (6.1)
4. Crawford, 2015 (5.8)
5. Crawford, 2016 (5.5)
6. Adames, 2022 (4.3)
7 (t.) Speier, 1975 (4.2)
7 (t.) Adames, 2021 (4.2)
8. Crawford, 2014 (3.4)
9. Daryl Spencer, 1958 (3.3)
10. Adames, 2023 (3.1)
11. Adames, 2024 (3.0)

 

[tzill]

From Brisbee today:

Sound defensive shortstops with power and a history of health are hard to find. Very hard to find. Ridiculously hard to find.

Once a team finds one, they tend to help an awful lot. The Giants’ work isn’t done, but they certainly crossed the most important line item off their list.

 

[calsnowskier]

Right. But what did the draft build all the other years we didn’t win? My point wasn’t that the draft isn’t important, it’s just more of a crapshoot than other sports. My only point was, if you are going to forfeit a draft pick, just make sure the juice is worth the squeeze. I.e. not Michael Tucker.

And don’t sign QOs to 1-year deals. Snell is just about Tucker-level (as was Chappy, to be fair, but we extended Chappy, so that gets lost.

 

[calsnowskier]

Greatest seasons by a SF SS with Adames mixed in:

1. Rich Aurilia, 2001 (6.7 WAR)
2 (t.) Brandon Crawford, 2021 (6.1)
2 (t.) Chris Speier, 1972 (6.1)
4. Crawford, 2015 (5.8)
5. Crawford, 2016 (5.5)
6. Adames, 2022 (4.3)
7 (t.) Speier, 1975 (4.2)
7 (t.) Adames, 2021 (4.2)
8. Crawford, 2014 (3.4)
9. Daryl Spencer, 1958 (3.3)
10. Adames, 2023 (3.1)
11. Adames, 2024 (3.0)

0.5. Tejada 2004 (7.4)
3. Tejada 2005 (5.9)
4.5. Tejada 2002 (5.7)
4.6. Rentaria 2003 (5.6)
5.5.Tejada 2003 (4.9)
5.6. Tejada 2006 (4.5)
6 (t.) Rentaria 2002 (4.3)
7 (t.) Tejada 2000 (4.2)
7 (t.) Tejada 2001 (4.2)
7 (t.) Rentaria 2006 (4.2)
7 (t.) Ahmed 2019 (4.2)
7.3 (t.) Rentaria 2007 (4.1)
7.3 (t.) Ahmed 2018 (4.1)
7.5. Tejada 1999 (3.6)

 

[SF11704]

Yeah the ratchet always goes up. It's not an overpay so much as the market rate (especially to get hitters in SF). In a few years it will be a bargain if he's productive. Only way to get good players from outside the organization is give up good prospects or pay a lot for FAs.

Agree 100% but I also think that the FA process has changed quite a bit with the Othani signing, IMHO there are now two types of contracts. Many of the ones I see now are in the 5-10year range. These (again my opinion) are much more in the 'investment' category. Teams are 'investing in long term solutions. I don't believe any of these will be in the 'over paying' arena. The market will dictate what the actual cost will be for that particular investment. I also feel that these particular contracts are not that centered around money. The player will always get what they are looking for and most likely from multiple teams. This is where I think teams like the Dodgers, Phillies. Yankees etc have a real advantage. They can almost guarantee a playoff run at the end of the season. For any team to compete with that they have to be competitive. We (SF) just haven't been in that arena during the past decade. Hard to compete for the same resources without that edge. I feel that Adames has given us a good boost in the right direction. Acquiring a front line pitcher would really help us now!
I also feel that the 1-2 year contracts is where you will see quite a bit of 'overpaying'. These aren't investments, They are typically band aid solutions for a specific problem. Soler was a good example of that. Gambling on a 30+ HR year .... that never happened ....

 

[LHG]

Right. But what did the draft build all the other years we didn’t win? My point wasn’t that the draft isn’t important, it’s just more of a crapshoot than other sports. My only point was, if you are going to forfeit a draft pick, just make sure the juice is worth the squeeze. I.e. not Michael Tucker.

The point, I think, of cal’s post was that winning teams focus on building through the draft and have smart people who know what they are doing in the draft. The draft is more about smart, well run scouting departments finding good players and smart, well run farm systems developing them than just believing that the draft is going to get good players just by rolling the dice. Yes, the draft is a gamble but so is every other form of player acquisitions

 

[tzill]

0.5. Tejada 2004 (7.4)
3. Tejada 2005 (5.9)
4.5. Tejada 2002 (5.7)
4.6. Rentaria 2003 (5.6)
5.5.Tejada 2003 (4.9)
5.6. Tejada 2006 (4.5)
6 (t.) Rentaria 2002 (4.3)
7 (t.) Tejada 2000 (4.2)
7 (t.) Tejada 2001 (4.2)
7 (t.) Rentaria 2006 (4.2)
7 (t.) Ahmed 2019 (4.2)
7.3 (t.) Rentaria 2007 (4.1)
7.3 (t.) Ahmed 2018 (4.1)
7.5. Tejada 1999 (3.6)

Kind of apples and oranges, no? Adames numbers are all in the last four years. Tejadas numbers were waaaay before he became a Giant.

 

[calsnowskier]

Kind of apples and oranges, no? Adames numbers are all in the last four years. Tejadas numbers were waaaay before he became a Giant.

And Adames’ numbers were put up in a bandbox.

 

[filosofy29]

The point, I think, of cal’s post was that winning teams focus on building through the draft and have smart people who know what they are doing in the draft. The draft is more about smart, well run scouting departments finding good players and smart, well run farm systems developing them than just believing that the draft is going to get good players just by rolling the dice. Yes, the draft is a gamble but so is every other form of player acquisitions

I don’t understand how we’re still possibly disagreeing, so I’ll just tip my hat. I think we’re all pretty much saying similar things.

 

[calsnowskier]

I am happy we got him. I am just offering arguments to remain level headed. I think we overpaid, but I don’t really care about that. If this team DVER use finances as an excuse not to compete, that is on them, not any contract that they signed.

And as Filo said, adding Adames makes us a better team, regardless, and could make us more attractive to the next guy looking for a home.

 

[SF11704]

I am happy we got him. I am just offering arguments to remain level headed. I think we overpaid, but I don’t really care about that. If this team DVER use finances as an excuse not to compete, that is on them, not any contract that they signed.

And as Filo said, adding Adames makes us a better team, regardless, and could make us more attractive to the next guy looking for a home.

The real question we all have is ..... what comes next? Adames fills one of our prkblem areas but we have still have an issue with pitching. They have to cover the loss of Snell. All I really want is one solid opener. A guy that can consistantly give us 5 to 6 solid innings. I think our pen is pretty decent. Just getting to them is where we can use a little help

 

[calsnowskier]

The real question we all have is ..... what comes next? Adames fills one of our prkblem areas but we have still have an issue with pitching. They have to cover the loss of Snell. All I really want is one solid opener. A guy that can consistantly give us 5 to 6 solid innings. I think our pen is pretty decent. Just getting to them is where we can use a little help

I am certainly not opposed to getting another arm. But our rotation isn’t horrible.

Webb
Ray
Harrison
Hicks
Birdsong/Beck/Black/Roupp/Whisenhunt

An additional ace would be nice, but not NECESSARY. Ray is a bit of a question mark right now, but this could be the coming out season for Harry.

 

[tzill]

I don’t understand how we’re still possibly disagreeing, so I’ll just tip my hat. I think we’re all pretty much saying similar things.

Well, you all are my alts.

 

[tzill]

I am happy we got him. I am just offering arguments to remain level headed. I think we overpaid, but I don’t really care about that. If this team DVER use finances as an excuse not to compete, that is on them, not any contract that they signed.

And as Filo said, adding Adames makes us a better team, regardless, and could make us more attractive to the next guy looking for a home.

Willy Adames' ZiPS projections estimate a seven-year deal to be worth $181.2M. The Giants are paying $182M. These projections are park adjusted.

 

[calsnowskier]

Willy Adames' ZiPS projections estimate a seven-year deal to be worth $181.2M. The Giants are paying $182M. These projections are park adjusted.

So…

You agree that the Giants over paid.