Who will win the NFC West this year?

[NickTheGreek]

I think the thought is that if they pay Lynch then they won't have the money for Wilson. Either that or they are trying to show why Wilson is more important to the team than that of Lynch (probably this one). There have been quite a few on here (myself included) that think Lynch is the bigger threat on offense than that of Wilson. I like both players and think they both contribute like crazy to the team but if I was a coach I would rather force Wilson to beat me than that of Lynch. I would rather load up the box and dare Wilson to throw and see what happens. Now yes Wilson has shown he does just fine when that happens. The question becomes though how much does not having Lynch in the offense actually hurt the offense? He is what allows a lot of the play action and teams delaying a bit on any kind of pressure because of the fear of the run. I just think teams game plan a bit more on how to stop Lynch than Wilson at this point.

I thought so, too, until I saw the SB. Wilson is great and can carry that team with weapons. Denver focused on stopping Lynch which opened up early Jet sweeps to Harvin. Then you fake to Harvin and it opens up the passing game.

At some point, Lynch is going to slow down. There would be a drop off at RB but don't sleep on Christine Michael. He can be an "adequate" replacement. As soon as Russell Wilson is asked to carry Seattle, I see him doing it with these weapons.

Didn't Wilson throw for almost 400 yds vs Atlanta a couple of years ago in the playoffs when they were down by 3 td's? I believe so.

The kid is much better than fans think and I haven't seen any tape from the playoffs that says he can't carry Seattle and make all the NFL throws with upper echelon decision making.

 

[NickTheGreek]

On paper, Bradford is surrounded with more talent than he has ever had. Receivers (Britt, Tavon entering his 2nd year, Givens, Bailey), Oline (Long, Robinson, Wells, Saffold, Barksdale) and running game (Stacy, Mason, Cunningham).

Its all there.

He could have a big year. Or Shaun Hill could have a big year.

The Rams have A LOT of talent. The QB is typically the wild card and in St.Louis, it's everything. I could see the Rams making the wild card as long as they go 3-3 in the division and likely 7-3 outside.

 

[cdumler7]

I thought so, too, until I saw the SB. Wilson is great and can carry that team with weapons. Denver focused on stopping Lynch which opened up early Jet sweeps to Harvin. Then you fake to Harvin and it opens up the passing game.

At some point, Lynch is going to slow down. There would be a drop off at RB but don't sleep on Christine Michael. He can be an "adequate" replacement. As soon as Russell Wilson is asked to carry Seattle, I see him doing it with these weapons.

Didn't Wilson throw for almost 400 yds vs Atlanta a couple of years ago in the playoffs when they were down by 3 td's? I believe so.

The kid is much better than fans think and I haven't seen any tape from the playoffs that says he can't carry Seattle and make all the NFL throws with upper echelon decision making.

Never said he couldn't. It is why it really is a pick your poison at this time thing. Broncos tried to contain the run game (although Harvin being back is what killed them in this department as they practiced more crashing the middle leaving them vulnerable to the reverse and off-tackle runs). They stopped Lynch just fine but like you said Wilson killed them. Now I will say they were missing Harris, Moore, and only had at best a mediocre version of Champ because of his injury in the secondary. So essentially they only had 1 starter left from the beginning of the year in the secondary and that was DRC. Wilson took advantage of that as he did against other teams that tried to key in on Lynch. He is a good quarterback. Now most analyst and such are waiting though to see what happens when he does have to throw for 40 times a game on a regular basis...can he still keep up the pace that he is at? We shall see. I think he won't be quite putting up the touchdown to int. ratio he is now but he won't be some slouch either at it. As I said earlier in this thread I think his career is starting to shape up very similar to that of Ben Roethlisberger. Ben has turned into a top-10 quarterback when healthy almost every year and I expect the same from Wilson.

Now if I was picking between Lynch and Wilson Wilson wins by a landslide. He plays a more important position and has a lot more elite years left in him. In the whole pay Lynch thing though I would be willing to rework his contract. Not really any new money just change up how it is distributed. It really isn't that hard to do in today's NFL.

 

[NickTheGreek]

Never said he couldn't. It is why it really is a pick your poison at this time thing. Broncos tried to contain the run game (although Harvin being back is what killed them in this department as they practiced more crashing the middle leaving them vulnerable to the reverse and off-tackle runs). They stopped Lynch just fine but like you said Wilson killed them. Now I will say they were missing Harris, Moore, and only had at best a mediocre version of Champ because of his injury in the secondary. So essentially they only had 1 starter left from the beginning of the year in the secondary and that was DRC. Wilson took advantage of that as he did against other teams that tried to key in on Lynch. He is a good quarterback. Now most analyst and such are waiting though to see what happens when he does have to throw for 40 times a game on a regular basis...can he still keep up the pace that he is at? We shall see. I think he won't be quite putting up the touchdown to int. ratio he is now but he won't be some slouch either at it. As I said earlier in this thread I think his career is starting to shape up very similar to that of Ben Roethlisberger. Ben has turned into a top-10 quarterback when healthy almost every year and I expect the same from Wilson.

Now if I was picking between Lynch and Wilson Wilson wins by a landslide. He plays a more important position and has a lot more elite years left in him. In the whole pay Lynch thing though I would be willing to rework his contract. Not really any new money just change up how it is distributed. It really isn't that hard to do in today's NFL.

Until the bold. Moving $$ around just opens up to pay the piper the next year when he likely gets cut. I don't know contracts but you can't or shouldn't re-work with a guy that will be playing his last year on the team. Lynch is making a big mistake.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I think the thought is that if they pay Lynch then they won't have the money for Wilson. Either that or they are trying to show why Wilson is more important to the team than that of Lynch (probably this one). There have been quite a few on here (myself included) that think Lynch is the bigger threat on offense than that of Wilson. I like both players and think they both contribute like crazy to the team but if I was a coach I would rather force Wilson to beat me than that of Lynch. I would rather load up the box and dare Wilson to throw and see what happens. Now yes Wilson has shown he does just fine when that happens. The question becomes though how much does not having Lynch in the offense actually hurt the offense? He is what allows a lot of the play action and teams delaying a bit on any kind of pressure because of the fear of the run. I just think teams game plan a bit more on how to stop Lynch than Wilson at this point.

IMO they don't want to redo Lynch contract for lots of reason.

A) He's making very good money already.
B) They've already had to make some tough calls, letting Clemon and Red Bryant go, letting Golden Tate walk.
C) Besides wanting to extend Wilson contract, lots of good players are in the last year of their contract, Cliff Avril, Carpenter, K.J. Wright, Bryon Maxwell, Malcolm Smith to name a few.
D) The Seahawks most likely aren't going to be able to keep them all, some further releases and or letting some good players walk next off season, the last thing they need is for a guy making really good money already, to want even more.

 

[NickTheGreek]

Depends on which Matt Shaub shows up

not part of the NFCW thread but heck, there were 4 straight pages of back and forth trash.

Derek Carr is a future stud and SB winner.

 

[Clayton]

IMO they don't want to redo Lynch contract for lots of reason.

A) He's making very good money already.
B) They've already had to make some tough calls, letting Clemon and Red Bryant go, letting Golden Tate walk.
C) Besides wanting to extend Wilson contract, lots of good players are in the last year of their contract, Cliff Avril, Carpenter, K.J. Wright, Bryon Maxwell, Malcolm Smith to name a few.
D) The Seahawks most likely aren't going to be able to keep them all, some further releases and or letting some good players walk next off season, the last thing they need is for a guy making really good money already, to want even more.

Well, and the reality is that the Seahawks have a backup RB and they drafted the guy out of A&M and I'm sure the Front Office is confident enough in their drafting ability to have Christie come in.

The other reality is that Lynch has a ton of touches and he'll wear down this year or the next just due to his style of running. I wouldn't pay him, either, if I was in their position but Lynch is still one of their 3 or 4 most important players. Being a great RB behind a bad oline is difficult work

 

[Clayton]

not part of the NFCW thread but heck, there were 4 straight pages of back and forth trash.

Derek Carr is a future stud and SB winner.

Not next year. We have some Fresno guys on the Rams board who swear up and down by him but we also have some USC guys who saw that bowl game.

Carr is really, really raw.

 

[cdumler7]

IMO they don't want to redo Lynch contract for lots of reason.

A) He's making very good money already.
B) They've already had to make some tough calls, letting Clemon and Red Bryant go, letting Golden Tate walk.
C) Besides wanting to extend Wilson contract, lots of good players are in the last year of their contract, Cliff Avril, Carpenter, K.J. Wright, Bryon Maxwell, Malcolm Smith to name a few.
D) The Seahawks most likely aren't going to be able to keep them all, some further releases and or letting some good players walk next off season, the last thing they need is for a guy making really good money already, to want even more.

I understand fully why they wouldn't pay him more than he is already making. They are playing hard ball and have every right to do that. I do think Carroll made a huge mistake making the comment about "honoring the contract" as it does seem to be causing some of the players to stand behind Lynch in this ordeal as it should. Players got hosed pretty bad in the last CBA and teams just don't seem to have any problem letting go of players with big contracts that are not quite living up to the contract. So I understand why players are fighting for every dollar that they can get. I understand both sides of the argument and this is one of those situations where both sides are justified in what they are doing. Unfortunately for Lynch he is the one losing out the most as he is losing money by the day. The team is losing out though in they will be missing a key player on a team loaded for another championship. Missing an All-Pro talent like Lynch could be the difference between another Super Bowl Win and an early exit to the season. Really that is his biggest leverage right now.

Now to NicktheGreek he is making a mistake in the immediate as he is being fined everyday he is gone. I don't know if he is missing out in the long run though as he is expected to be cut next season so him trying to get some money that can come next year as well could in the long run end up more overall money than what he would get if he decided to go ahead and play this year on the contract he has.

Honestly with the way his contract is written though the team could actually figure out a way to not only pay him a bit more this year with not really adding much of a cap hit plus be able to keep him next season (I would say he still has another good year in him after this one) without having to pay the huge cap hit. So essentially you are getting 2 years of service out of him with only adding a bit of money to this year but it balancing out for next season where he still plays but not at the huge Cap Hit that is expected.

 

[NickTheGreek]

Not next year. We have some Fresno guys on the Rams board who swear up and down by him but we also have some USC guys who saw that bowl game.

Carr is really, really raw.

How raw is really raw? steak tartare? any comparisons? Can he handle pressure is my only question. He can make the necessary throws. Can laser it on a rope when he needs to and those deep balls were on the money and in stride. The receiver never broke stride in like 5 deep bombs at differing 9 routes.

It's the 2 P's with Carr. Progressions and Pressure. I don't know what raw even means anymore as these QB's get tossed in the fire so quickly, it seems they're all raw. I bet he turns out to be the best QB of the 2014 class.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I understand fully why they wouldn't pay him more than he is already making. They are playing hard ball and have every right to do that. I do think Carroll made a huge mistake making the comment about "honoring the contract" as it does seem to be causing some of the players to stand behind Lynch in this ordeal as it should. Players got hosed pretty bad in the last CBA and teams just don't seem to have any problem letting go of players with big contracts that are not quite living up to the contract. So I understand why players are fighting for every dollar that they can get. I understand both sides of the argument and this is one of those situations where both sides are justified in what they are doing. Unfortunately for Lynch he is the one losing out the most as he is losing money by the day. The team is losing out though in they will be missing a key player on a team loaded for another championship. Missing an All-Pro talent like Lynch could be the difference between another Super Bowl Win and an early exit to the season. Really that is his biggest leverage right now.

Now to NicktheGreek he is making a mistake in the immediate as he is being fined everyday he is gone. I don't know if he is missing out in the long run though as he is expected to be cut next season so him trying to get some money that can come next year as well could in the long run end up more overall money than what he would get if he decided to go ahead and play this year on the contract he has.

Honestly with the way his contract is written though the team could actually figure out a way to not only pay him a bit more this year with not really adding much of a cap hit plus be able to keep him next season (I would say he still has another good year in him after this one) without having to pay the huge cap hit. So essentially you are getting 2 years of service out of him with only adding a bit of money to this year but it balancing out for next season where he still plays but not at the huge Cap Hit that is expected.

I won't say it was a big mistake, but I do think it would of been better to bring up all the guys in their last year and how hard this is going to be to sign these guys as is.

As for being able to come up with more money, without affecting the cap much, I don't see how that could be done.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

How raw is really raw? any comparisons? Can he handle pressure is my only question. He can make the necessary throws. Can laser it on a rope when he needs to and those deep balls were on the money and in stride. The receiver never broke stride in like 5 deep bombs at differing 9 routes.

It's the 2 P's with Carr. Progressions and Pressure. I don't know what raw even means anymore as these QB's get tossed in the fire so quickly, it seems they're all raw.

It certainly does seem that the term "raw" is thrown around with no consistent standard. A lot of noise to filter through for anyone trying to gather info on prospects at any position and for any sport really now.

 

[Clayton]

It certainly does seem that the term "raw" is thrown around with no consistent standard. A lot of noise to filter through for anyone trying to gather info on prospects at any position and for any sport really now.

There is a lot of data suggesting that he is indeed raw, though. He didn't play many good defenses. He got crushed by USC. He didnt play with many good players. He didnt handle pressure all that well. He threw a ton of screen passes

 

[cdumler7]

I won't say it was a big mistake, but I do think it would of been better to bring up all the guys in their last year and how hard this is going to be to sign these guys as is.

As for being able to come up with more money, without affecting the cap much, I don't see how that could be done.

Well essentially the deal is you are keeping him 2-years instead of 1. This is the only way to get it done where he gets his money but it doesn't completely destroy the cap next year. Say give him a $5 million signing bonus. This means it is prorated out over the contract. So gives him some more money this year without it all hitting the cap this year. It would be a small raise this year but you could cut his base salary down to where it really is maybe only $1 million more against the cap for this year yet he still makes say that $7-8 million in actual money for this year. Then you lower his base salary for next year so say next season he is only counting something like $4 million against the Cap instead of the $8.5 million. Now yes this means a little less money for next season but it also means you keep a high quality guy at a much lower price. Gives you the ability to feel comfortable keeping him and putting him in a more run by committee type set up. Again yes this adds a bit to the cap which is expected but not so much that it completely hinders your team either.

 

[NickTheGreek]

There is a lot of data suggesting that he is indeed raw, though. He didn't play many good defenses. He got crushed by USC. He didnt play with many good players. He didnt handle pressure all that well. He threw a ton of screen passes

Have you seen a college QB that threw so many beautiful deep balls? They were NFL throws. The receiver would have a safety and CB closing within a yard and the ball would land over the top so the wr didn't break stride and could haul it in. Not just once, but 5+. those were 40 - 60 yd perfect throws and not to guys with 10 yd windows but the 1 yd variety.

I don't know about the pressure and why I called it the 2 P's. Progressions and Pressure. Two paramount variables that I didn't see and can't claim to know anything about.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

There is a lot of data suggesting that he is indeed raw, though. He didn't play many good defenses. He got crushed by USC. He didnt play with many good players. He didnt handle pressure all that well. He threw a ton of screen passes

I think the problem here is you could ask twenty different posters and get different versions of what they perceive as raw.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Well essentially the deal is you are keeping him 2-years instead of 1. This is the only way to get it done where he gets his money but it doesn't completely destroy the cap next year. Say give him a $5 million signing bonus. This means it is prorated out over the contract. So gives him some more money this year without it all hitting the cap this year. It would be a small raise this year but you could cut his base salary down to where it really is maybe only $1 million more against the cap for this year yet he still makes say that $7-8 million in actual money for this year. Then you lower his base salary for next year so say next season he is only counting something like $4 million against the Cap instead of the $8.5 million. Now yes this means a little less money for next season but it also means you keep a high quality guy at a much lower price. Gives you the ability to feel comfortable keeping him and putting him in a more run by committee type set up. Again yes this adds a bit to the cap which is expected but not so much that it completely hinders your team either.

His cap hit next year is already to steep next year. I doubt he's on the roster next year and that is without adding more to his cap hit. Seahawks going to have to make some tough calls next reason and most of us Seahawks fans feel Lynch is one of them.

 

[Clayton]

His cap hit next year is already to steep next year.

The elephant in the room with Seattle is how cheap Russell Wilson is and how expensive Russell Wilson will be. Its kinda why I kinda just assume they'll be good..Seattle has so much depth.

But Seattle needs a running game and their oline isnt good enough to have just some dude back there

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The elephant in the room with Seattle is how cheap Russell Wilson is and how expensive Russell Wilson will be. Its kinda why I kinda just assume they'll be good..Seattle has so much depth.

But Seattle needs a running game and their oline isnt good enough to have just some dude back there

True, but if the guys they have are not up to the job, then the search would continue. Also, no reason to think that the OL could not be better next year.

 

[WizardHawk]

Every team that tries to predict their record has the game vs us as a W.
Upsets happen weekly. The Raiders will have a nice Defense and beat team(s) from the NFCW. They aren't going 0-4 like everyone predicts. Some age but a great set of LB's and veterans to rush the QB. Can't lose Hayden, though. Mack will destroy Colin in our house before we rent from you and damage your turf.

You talk about the Raiders defense, but do they even have an offense?

Pretty sure at least one of those 4 games the offense ends up with negative scoring against the NFCW's slew of top flight defenses. Good luck keeping Kaepernick contained, more or less destroy him. The best defenses in the league struggle with that.

The Raiders he says.