Who Has a Shot at a National Title in 2020

[fredsdeadfriend]

[QUOTE="Kaplony, post: 14449905, member: 12435" Dabo won his division his first full year as coach.[/QUOTE]

And still lost 5 games, and that was with his predecessors players for the most part. And then he went 6-7 in his 2nd season.

And even that 3rd season, even with 10 wins, they still had 4 losses and only finished #22 in the polls.


So did anyone REALLY know that Clemson was THE team to beat by that point yet? 16 losses in his first 3 seasons and never cracking the Top 20 in the rankings??? Is that what you call impressive and dominant?

lol


You do realize Fleck has done much better than that in his 3 years at UMn, against tougher competition, right? lol

 

[handicappers]

LOL, lies like what? UMn has produced more than 50 Olympic Medalists? You claim that was a lie while I've already posted the proof proving what I said was accurate. Meaning you were WRONG.

Lies like what? That I am a Vet? lol You are pathetic.

And I never called the Mods gay, but who cares if I did? Why do you think that's a bad thing? Homophobic much?


Yeah, we all know you are a homophobe Handi.

Reported.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Reported.

For what? Calling you out for being a homophobe? lol


Whiney baby tattle tale, go home and cry to your mommy.

 

[handicappers]

For what? Calling you out for being a homophobe? lol


Whiney baby tattle tale, go home and cry to your mommy.

Reported. Tick tock

 

[LawDawg]

But you compare how Clemson's players on the current roster are ranked, compared to UMn's players on their current roster.

I'm trying to compare UMn going into their 4th season under Fleck, compared to Clemson going into their 4th season under Dabo.

Do you see where I am going with that?


Sure, they just brought in the #3 rated class. Those recruits had NOTHING, not even close to anything to do with Clemson's Natl titles in 2016 and 2018.


That 2016 title, Dabo's first, was made up of players from what kind of recruiting classes? You have to go back to the incoming classes of 2014, 2013 & 2012 for the most part, and MAYBE 2015 & 2016 if Dabo was playing 1st and 2nd year players on that Title winning team.


So STOP, please, telling me about any recruiting classes making up their current roster, that's not relevant to my point, not at all. All that information tells me is that Clemson is not going anywhere and may end up in the cfp every year from 2020 til 2029, maybe?


I'm concentrating on HOW Clemson got to the point that they could win in 2016 when back before Dabo got there, they struggled to make the Top 25.

You can go back and easily look at what their roster was in 2016.

They had the 9th best roster, based on recruiting. Clemson Tigers 2019 Rosters

They had 4 5*, 35 4* and 35 3*.

Last year, in year 3, you were 46th best roster, with 0 5*, 5 4*, and 74 3*.

You just had the 37th ranked class, with 2 4*, and 22 3*. Two of your 4* were seniors.

That means at best, your roster next year will be:

0 5*, 5 4*, and 76 3*.

So, Dabo had 4 more 5*, and 39 more 4 *. Basically they had 34 more blue chip recruits than you do - 39 to 5, and I can assure you that if we compare their 4* to their 4* theirs will be in the top of the 4* range, and yours won't.

Look I follow recruiting way more than I should, but you are trying to hang onto some sort of hope based on Clemson. As you can see, that's just not going to work for you. Not to mention you will have a way harder schedule which will result in more injuries, and more losses.

 

[Kaplony]

[QUOTE="Kaplony, post: 14449905, member: 12435" Dabo won his division his first full year as coach.

And still lost 5 games, and that was with his predecessors players for the most part. And then he went 6-7 in his 2nd season.

And even that 3rd season, even with 10 wins, they still had 4 losses and only finished #22 in the polls.


So did anyone REALLY know that Clemson was THE team to beat by that point yet? 16 losses in his first 3 seasons and never cracking the Top 20 in the rankings??? Is that what you call impressive and dominant?

lol


You do realize Fleck has done much better than that in his 3 years at UMn, against tougher competition, right? lol[/QUOTE]

Division winner in year 1
Conference winner in year 3

Fleck hasn't even sniffed a division title in the weak ass Big Slow West, but he's accomplished more than Dabo? Fleck's best bowl has been the Outhouse. Dabo was in a BCS bowl in the same timeframe. Fleck is 0-1 against Ohio State, Dabo is 3-0.

Hell, it will be 2021 until Fleck can say that he's played two P5 OOC games.....by his fifth full season Dabo had already played ten as head coach.

 

[Across The Field]

For what? Calling you out for being a homophobe? lol


Whiney baby tattle tale, go home and cry to your mommy.

Trust me on this one, there's literally never any reason to try and interact with him. It's 99.9% cheap trolling.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

You can go back and easily look at what their roster was in 2016.

They had the 9th best roster, based on recruiting. Clemson Tigers 2019 Rosters

They had 4 5*, 35 4* and 35 3*.


Look I follow recruiting way more than I should, but you are trying to hang onto some sort of hope based on Clemson. As you can see, that's just not going to work for you. Not to mention you will have a way harder schedule which will result in more injuries, and more losses.

I'm asking about the 2016 roster, NOT the 2019 roster. I don't care about the 2019 roster. Why don't you post a link to the 2016 roster?

09 class = 36th. 13 players only.
10 class = 27th.
11 class = 10th. 28 players.
12 class = 20th. 15 players only.
13 class = 15th.
14 class = 16th.
15 class = 9th. 24 players.
16 class = 11th.

So unless that 2015 class and the fresh out of high school 16 class did all the work, Clemson's 2016 title was won with players from recruiting classes in the teens, with the 5th year seniors from a #20 recruiting class?

I mean, sure, this is a simplistic way to look at it, and I'm taking data from only one source, 247. I'm not trying to make an emphatic statement, just saying, Dabo seems to be doing more with less.

Also, those classes were rated, in the ACC,

6th, 4th, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, and 2nd.


So yeah, Dabo has been doing more with less than at least his conference foes.



But an even more interesting thing I noticed, was what Dabo had to work with upon arriving on campus.

The 2005, 06 & 07 classes were ranked 15th, 14th and 16th in the nation with the 2008 class ranked 9th. Seem Mr Bowden left his some pretty talented players to work with, yet he still lost 16 games in his first 3 seasons.


Now PJ Fleck inherited classes of 67th, 57th, 63rd & 46th from 2013-2016, with the 2017 class coming in at 59th.

He brought in the 36th best class in 2018 and the 2019 class came in at 45th.

So compare what Fleck had to work with, compared to Dabo, and what they did with what they inherited and brought in to start, and Fleck lost fewer games and won more games than Dabo did his first 3 seasons.

And Dabo started out with classes of 36th and 27th before finally bringing in the 10th ranked class in 2011. And it took him til 2015 to crack the Top 10 again.

So it just seems to me, that Dabo had more to work with than Fleck, but less to work with than his conference competition, and yet surpassed all of his conf competition out on the field.


So how is it so impossible for Fleck, who has done more with much less than Dabo, to keep up with Dabo's path to success at Clemson?

Fleck's 2020 class is rated #35, about the same as Dabo's 2009 class. Dabo followed that up with a #27 class and then that #10 class.


Fleck's 2021 class so far is rated #14. So if he keeps it in the teens or even in the 20s, he'll be on track to keep up with Dabo, at least in theory.

Now if Fleck has one more good season, I could easily see him pulling in a Top 15 class, maybe even Top 10 class, because most of the 2020 class was committed BEFORE the season started, so the positive effects of the 2019 season has not yet started to be seen. It could happen this year, with his 2021 class?

 

[handicappers]

Trust me on this one, there's literally never any reason to try and interact with him. It's 99.9% cheap trolling.

Lol

still buttbhurt cause I prove you clueless on occasion? Have a tissue, Sally

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

And still lost 5 games, and that was with his predecessors players for the most part. And then he went 6-7 in his 2nd season.

And even that 3rd season, even with 10 wins, they still had 4 losses and only finished #22 in the polls.


So did anyone REALLY know that Clemson was THE team to beat by that point yet? 16 losses in his first 3 seasons and never cracking the Top 20 in the rankings??? Is that what you call impressive and dominant?

lol


You do realize Fleck has done much better than that in his 3 years at UMn, against tougher competition, right? lol

Division winner in year 1
Conference winner in year 3

Fleck hasn't even sniffed a division title in the weak ass Big Slow West, but he's accomplished more than Dabo? Fleck's best bowl has been the Outhouse. Dabo was in a BCS bowl in the same timeframe. Fleck is 0-1 against Ohio State, Dabo is 3-0.

Hell, it will be 2021 until Fleck can say that he's played two P5 OOC games.....by his fifth full season Dabo had already played ten as head coach.[/QUOTE]



WOW, got under someone's skin. lol

Relax dude. I'm not dissing your Tigers. In fact, I'm pumping up Dabo, but you are SO insecure my even daring to compare Fleck with Dabo has gotten you all up in arms? lol Too funny.


Fleck hasn't even sniffed a Div Title eh? THEY TIED FOR A DIVISION TITLE THIS YEAR you moron. Wisco won the tiebreaker. If that isn't sniffing, I don't know what the fuck that would be.


And Clemson can win conf titles while losing 4 games, that's pathetic dude. UMn loses just 2 games and according to you hasn't even sniffed a Div Title? WOW

And how is the Big West weak? I'd bet the B1G West alone produces more ranked teams than the entire ACC does, lol.

Dude, you are delusional.

And Clemson HAS TO play tough P5 opponents in the ooc part of their schedule because they don't play any in their conf schedule.



And if you weren't so butthurt and insecure, you'd realize I'm ONLY comparing Fleck's 3 years at Minny with Dabo's FIRST THREE YEARS at Clemson. AFTER next year, then I'll add Dabo's 4th year at Clemson to the comparison.


I could cheat and start the comparison with the year before Fleck got to UMn. That would give him an 11-2 season and a 13-1 season in the last 4 years.

If you take out just his first year at WMU and his first year at UMn, you know it's hard to hold it against a guy what the loser before him left him, he'd have a record of

47-19. Even if you add his first year at UMn he's still at 52-26.


Btw, it took Dabo how long before he won 11 games at Clemson? His 5th ssn?

Fleck did it in his 4th ssn at WMU, 13 wins actually, in about as tough of a conference as the ACC, lol. And he did it in his 3rd season at UMn, in a much tougher conference than the ACC.


In order for Fleck to match Dabo, basically step for step, all he has to do is go 21-5 the next 2 ssns with one Top 15 finish and a Top 8 finish, then he would still have 4 more ssns after that before needing to win a Natl Title.

Not saying it's going to happen, but it's no where near as impossible as many of you seem to want to believe it is.

Maybe I am setting myself up to be disappointed, but I've done the same thing in the past and been right, and that was quite satisfying, tbh.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Lol

still buttbhurt cause I prove you clueless on occasion? Have a tissue, Sally

Derp

 

[handicappers]

Derp

Mongo response

 

[LawDawg]

I'm asking about the 2016 roster, NOT the 2019 roster. I don't care about the 2019 roster. Why don't you post a link to the 2016 roster?

09 class = 36th. 13 players only.
10 class = 27th.
11 class = 10th. 28 players.
12 class = 20th. 15 players only.
13 class = 15th.
14 class = 16th.
15 class = 9th. 24 players.
16 class = 11th.

So unless that 2015 class and the fresh out of high school 16 class did all the work, Clemson's 2016 title was won with players from recruiting classes in the teens, with the 5th year seniors from a #20 recruiting class?

I mean, sure, this is a simplistic way to look at it, and I'm taking data from only one source, 247. I'm not trying to make an emphatic statement, just saying, Dabo seems to be doing more with less.

Also, those classes were rated, in the ACC,

6th, 4th, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, and 2nd.


So yeah, Dabo has been doing more with less than at least his conference foes.



But an even more interesting thing I noticed, was what Dabo had to work with upon arriving on campus.

The 2005, 06 & 07 classes were ranked 15th, 14th and 16th in the nation with the 2008 class ranked 9th. Seem Mr Bowden left his some pretty talented players to work with, yet he still lost 16 games in his first 3 seasons.


Now PJ Fleck inherited classes of 67th, 57th, 63rd & 46th from 2013-2016, with the 2017 class coming in at 59th.

He brought in the 36th best class in 2018 and the 2019 class came in at 45th.

So compare what Fleck had to work with, compared to Dabo, and what they did with what they inherited and brought in to start, and Fleck lost fewer games and won more games than Dabo did his first 3 seasons.

And Dabo started out with classes of 36th and 27th before finally bringing in the 10th ranked class in 2011. And it took him til 2015 to crack the Top 10 again.

So it just seems to me, that Dabo had more to work with than Fleck, but less to work with than his conference competition, and yet surpassed all of his conf competition out on the field.


So how is it so impossible for Fleck, who has done more with much less than Dabo, to keep up with Dabo's path to success at Clemson?

Fleck's 2020 class is rated #35, about the same as Dabo's 2009 class. Dabo followed that up with a #27 class and then that #10 class.


Fleck's 2021 class so far is rated #14. So if he keeps it in the teens or even in the 20s, he'll be on track to keep up with Dabo, at least in theory.

Now if Fleck has one more good season, I could easily see him pulling in a Top 15 class, maybe even Top 10 class, because most of the 2020 class was committed BEFORE the season started, so the positive effects of the 2019 season has not yet started to be seen. It could happen this year, with his 2021 class?

All the numbers I posted were the 2016 Roster, which is the Clemson year you brought up. Follow my link, click on the 2016 roster. For whatever reason, when you paste the link it shows 2019 Roster. But you can get to the 2016 Roster with 1 click, and the numbers I showed you are 2016. You guys aren't in the same universe of the 2016 Clemson Roster.

As to a couple of your points:

Why are you posting an 09 class? That's not relevant to the 2016 class that you brought up before. Compare your roster ... I've given you the site ... and they aren't anywhere near the same.

2021 class rankings a week after 2020 NSD are useless ... less than useless. That is so irrelevant it isn't even funny. You have 1 4* and 4 3* and that puts you in 14th place. UGA has 2 commits, a 5* and a 4* and we are 24th place ... it's irrelevant. We will be in contention for no. 1 again, while you are hoping to crack the teens. Where you are today is not something to rely on.

A little recruiting tidbit ... being in the top 10 isn't good enough any more. Clemson is the outlier, and their classes are odd in that Dabo take fewer players, but really highly ranked players. But, watch this ... the difference between the no. 10 team and UGA at no. 1 is 52 points, using the 247 composite. Now, take that spread and go the other way ... its the same difference as no. 10 and no. 33, Purdue. Even if you start getting in the teens, as you put it, that's 9 4*, the rest 3*. It's a different world at the top ... typically the top 3 ... are way above everyone else as they capture a huge part of the top 100 players. The top 4 teams, UGA, Bama, Clemson, LSU have 11, 10, 10, 9 respectfully. That's 40 of the top 100 to the top 4 teams. If you go back and look at the last 10 NCs or so, you will find that at some point 4 years prior to them winning the NC they had the no. 1 or 2 class at least once, and then top 5 a couple times. Do you honestly think Minnesota is going to get a no. 1 or 2 class, let alone a top 10 class.

There is a guy named Bud Elliott who came up with the theory that in order to even have a chance to win the NC, you have to have over 50% of your team to be blue chips (4* and 5*). Mind you, this doesn't mean if you have over 50% you will win ... only that no team since at least 1998, when the BCS came into play, has won with less. Minnesota is currently at 6% or thereabouts. As he pointed out in his article in 2019, the concentration at the top is getting more and more elite. In other words, the percentages used to be spread out more, but as I pointed out above the trend is that a larger concentration of elite recruits are going to far fewer teams. Ironically, LSU won this year with the 4th best percentage, beating the 6th, Clemson. UGA and Bama, no. 2 and 3 weren't even in the CFP. It's a good read with a fantastic graph that shows you the changing landscape. Bud Elliott’s 2019 Blue-Chip Ratio

Finally, why you can't match Clemson and Dabo's path is many. But, the main thing is that you aren't in the south. It's much easier to recruit in the south, and you aren't going to get elite recruits to come to Minneapolis. Especially along the LOS on both sides of the ball. Those OL and DL players that decide to leave the south will first go to tOSU, UM, PSU, where there is a recent history of winning.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

All the numbers I posted were the 2016 Roster, which is the Clemson year you brought up. Follow my link, click on the 2016 roster. For whatever reason, when you paste the link it shows 2019 Roster. But you can get to the 2016 Roster with 1 click, and the numbers I showed you are 2016. You guys aren't in the same universe of the 2016 Clemson Roster.

As to a couple of your points:

Why are you posting an 09 class? That's not relevant to the 2016 class that you brought up before. Compare your roster ... I've given you the site ... and they aren't anywhere near the same.

2021 class rankings a week after 2020 NSD are useless ... less than useless. That is so irrelevant it isn't even funny. You have 1 4* and 4 3* and that puts you in 14th place. UGA has 2 commits, a 5* and a 4* and we are 24th place ... it's irrelevant. We will be in contention for no. 1 again, while you are hoping to crack the teens. Where you are today is not something to rely on.

A little recruiting tidbit ... being in the top 10 isn't good enough any more. Clemson is the outlier, and their classes are odd in that Dabo take fewer players, but really highly ranked players. But, watch this ... the difference between the no. 10 team and UGA at no. 1 is 52 points, using the 247 composite. Now, take that spread and go the other way ... its the same difference as no. 10 and no. 33, Purdue. Even if you start getting in the teens, as you put it, that's 9 4*, the rest 3*. It's a different world at the top ... typically the top 3 ... are way above everyone else as they capture a huge part of the top 100 players. The top 4 teams, UGA, Bama, Clemson, LSU have 11, 10, 10, 9 respectfully. That's 40 of the top 100 to the top 4 teams. If you go back and look at the last 10 NCs or so, you will find that at some point 4 years prior to them winning the NC they had the no. 1 or 2 class at least once, and then top 5 a couple times. Do you honestly think Minnesota is going to get a no. 1 or 2 class, let alone a top 10 class.

There is a guy named Bud Elliott who came up with the theory that in order to even have a chance to win the NC, you have to have over 50% of your team to be blue chips (4* and 5*). Mind you, this doesn't mean if you have over 50% you will win ... only that no team since at least 1998, when the BCS came into play, has won with less. Minnesota is currently at 6% or thereabouts. As he pointed out in his article in 2019, the concentration at the top is getting more and more elite. In other words, the percentages used to be spread out more, but as I pointed out above the trend is that a larger concentration of elite recruits are going to far fewer teams. Ironically, LSU won this year with the 4th best percentage, beating the 6th, Clemson. UGA and Bama, no. 2 and 3 weren't even in the CFP. It's a good read with a fantastic graph that shows you the changing landscape. Bud Elliott’s 2019 Blue-Chip Ratio

Finally, why you can't match Clemson and Dabo's path is many. But, the main thing is that you aren't in the south. It's much easier to recruit in the south, and you aren't going to get elite recruits to come to Minneapolis. Especially along the LOS on both sides of the ball. Those OL and DL players that decide to leave the south will first go to tOSU, UM, PSU, where there is a recent history of winning.

Yeah, whatever, I've heard it all before. Blah Blah Blah.

People thought the same thing about the college hockey scene.

Then the NHL came in and raped each and every blue blood program. Michigan won 2 titles in 4 years, then went like 20 years before making another Final Four. Then came UND, won 2 titles in 4 years, then went over a decade before making another Title game and they were by far the most successful of the blue blood programs. Then came Minnesota, won back to back titles, then only made 3 more FFs in the next 15 years only making one more title game, and their coach, one of the best ever in the history of chk, got fired. Denver followed UMn, back to back titles, followed by over a decade without a single Final Four.

From 1999 to 2008, 10 blue bloods won titles, only 19 non-blue bloods made the FF, and only 2 even got to a title game. From 2009 to 2018, SIX non-blue bloods won titles, and something like 26 made Final Fours.

Game had totally changed.

Blue bloods struggled to keep their best players past 1 or 2 seasons and even marginally good players left after 3, and almost no one red-shirted.



Granted cfb is different, football players can't jump to the NFL as quickly, especially if they are the bigger guys, the lineman, and the NFL teams usually want QBs to stay in school longer. But more and more players are jumping into that transfer portal, and more and more are considering making the jump to the NFL, and when they do, they often opt to skip out on bowl games.


Now you think the best teams are just getting better and better and squeezing everyone else out. But the more and more the NFL starts focusing on those teams, the more they are going to have to rely on younger players with less experience and other teams are going to have more experienced rosters.

The other factor you haven't factored in yet, is coaches to the NFL. Saban chose not to make that jump, maybe it was the money they offered him, and neither did Urban Meyer bolt for the NFL. Tressel was probably too old for the NFL by the time he was peaking at OSU? But Dabo is young. If Fleck wasn't so into the whole culture thing, I'd be more fearful of his going off to the NFL than I would another school.

But Clemson wasn't much before Dabo. So if he leaves, they could drop back down. I'm sure FSU and Miami would jump at the opportunity to get back to the top of the ACC.

And there is only so much room on each roster. Backups may not always be ok with being backups. So when injuries happen, who knows. Look at Bama this year. And you assume Miami and FSU are never going to be good again and challenge Clemson?



And also, your whole ratings thing, long term is bullshit when a coach like Fleck has proven he can coach players up. And so many other schools don't win with rosters loaded with supposed superstars. These guys grow up alot from high school to college, and it's a very formative time of their lives, the wrong kinds of influences can stunt their growth and maturation or being taken for granted can be just as harmful.


The 2016 class, when re-evaluated by what they actually accomplished, had UMn's class coming in #8.

Now Fleck's newer guys are taking over, and from here on out all of the players are going to be his guys, his kind of guys.

There were not very many offenses that could compare to UMn's this season, as Auburn learned the hard way. And the vast majority of it was made up of Sophs, a couple jrs, one or two frosh. The only seniors didn't even start the year before, and they didn't star in the bowl game, either, with one lone exception, our star WR. But we are still returning a 1000 yard receiver.


And UMn's supposed recruiting disadvantages? lol That will take it's own response.

 

[LawDawg]

Yeah, whatever, I've heard it all before. Blah Blah Blah.

People thought the same thing about the college hockey scene.

Then the NHL came in and raped each and every blue blood program. Michigan won 2 titles in 4 years, then went like 20 years before making another Final Four. Then came UND, won 2 titles in 4 years, then went over a decade before making another Title game and they were by far the most successful of the blue blood programs. Then came Minnesota, won back to back titles, then only made 3 more FFs in the next 15 years only making one more title game, and their coach, one of the best ever in the history of chk, got fired. Denver followed UMn, back to back titles, followed by over a decade without a single Final Four.

From 1999 to 2008, 10 blue bloods won titles, only 19 non-blue bloods made the FF, and only 2 even got to a title game. From 2009 to 2018, SIX non-blue bloods won titles, and something like 26 made Final Fours.

Game had totally changed.

Blue bloods struggled to keep their best players past 1 or 2 seasons and even marginally good players left after 3, and almost no one red-shirted.



Granted cfb is different, football players can't jump to the NFL as quickly, especially if they are the bigger guys, the lineman, and the NFL teams usually want QBs to stay in school longer. But more and more players are jumping into that transfer portal, and more and more are considering making the jump to the NFL, and when they do, they often opt to skip out on bowl games.


Now you think the best teams are just getting better and better and squeezing everyone else out. But the more and more the NFL starts focusing on those teams, the more they are going to have to rely on younger players with less experience and other teams are going to have more experienced rosters.

The other factor you haven't factored in yet, is coaches to the NFL. Saban chose not to make that jump, maybe it was the money they offered him, and neither did Urban Meyer bolt for the NFL. Tressel was probably too old for the NFL by the time he was peaking at OSU? But Dabo is young. If Fleck wasn't so into the whole culture thing, I'd be more fearful of his going off to the NFL than I would another school.

But Clemson wasn't much before Dabo. So if he leaves, they could drop back down. I'm sure FSU and Miami would jump at the opportunity to get back to the top of the ACC.

And there is only so much room on each roster. Backups may not always be ok with being backups. So when injuries happen, who knows. Look at Bama this year. And you assume Miami and FSU are never going to be good again and challenge Clemson?



And also, your whole ratings thing, long term is bullshit when a coach like Fleck has proven he can coach players up. And so many other schools don't win with rosters loaded with supposed superstars. These guys grow up alot from high school to college, and it's a very formative time of their lives, the wrong kinds of influences can stunt their growth and maturation or being taken for granted can be just as harmful.


The 2016 class, when re-evaluated by what they actually accomplished, had UMn's class coming in #8.

Now Fleck's newer guys are taking over, and from here on out all of the players are going to be his guys, his kind of guys.

There were not very many offenses that could compare to UMn's this season, as Auburn learned the hard way. And the vast majority of it was made up of Sophs, a couple jrs, one or two frosh. The only seniors didn't even start the year before, and they didn't star in the bowl game, either, with one lone exception, our star WR. But we are still returning a 1000 yard receiver.


And UMn's supposed recruiting disadvantages? lol That will take it's own response.

You wanted facts, I gave you facts. You were hanging your hat on Minny becoming Clemson. I just gave you facts that show you that isn't in the realm of possibility, and proven you aren't even close to what Clemson was and Dabo built ... not in the same universe ... and I get "blah, blah, blah" and some discussion about hockey.

As for the "ratings thing," again I gave you facts that every team that has won since 1998 has, in fact, won with rosters loaded with superstars. If you don't think "stars matters" you are naive. You certainly can't point to any facts that would prove that they aren't. Coaching is important ... UGA was recruited better than most since Smart came on board, and still no championship. So, you have to have coaching to go with the talent. But you have to start with the talent, the best coaching in the world won't overcome it at the level of disparity you have and will have. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Look, I've enjoyed the conversation, and by all means have the last post. But, you're dreaming if you think that Minnesota doesn't have recruiting disadvantages. These have all been well documented, and one good coach who will only be there for another 2 or 3 years isn't going to suddenly change that. And, no "coaching up" his players is going to turn 5 4* and 80 3* into a CFP champion. It's never happened before, you guys aren't going to be the first.

Good luck with your season next year.

 

[ellupo]

Admit it, you were wrong. I was right. You lied. I did not. Just admit it already.

Do you have no shame?

Wow you are still crying in this thread, you are a sensitive little valor stealer.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Wow you are still crying in this thread, you are a sensitive little valor stealer.

Are you still lying about people. Seems to me that YOU are the valor stealer as you are attempting to steal MY valor from me. So only hell awaits you valor stealer.

LIAR

 

[handicappers]

^^^LOSER^^^ASSWIPE^^^FRAUD^^^HOMOPHOBE

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

You wanted facts, I gave you facts. You were hanging your hat on Minny becoming Clemson. I just gave you facts that show you that isn't in the realm of possibility, and proven you aren't even close to what Clemson was and Dabo built ... not in the same universe ... and I get "blah, blah, blah" and some discussion about hockey.

As for the "ratings thing," again I gave you facts that every team that has won since 1998 has, in fact, won with rosters loaded with superstars. If you don't think "stars matters" you are naive. You certainly can't point to any facts that would prove that they aren't. Coaching is important ... UGA was recruited better than most since Smart came on board, and still no championship. So, you have to have coaching to go with the talent. But you have to start with the talent, the best coaching in the world won't overcome it at the level of disparity you have and will have. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Look, I've enjoyed the conversation, and by all means have the last post. But, you're dreaming if you think that Minnesota doesn't have recruiting disadvantages. These have all been well documented, and one good coach who will only be there for another 2 or 3 years isn't going to suddenly change that. And, no "coaching up" his players is going to turn 5 4* and 80 3* into a CFP champion. It's never happened before, you guys aren't going to be the first.

Good luck with your season next year.

Dude, your BIAS seeps through with every paragraph. I see your so-called evidence, which is fine, but it's your blatant and obvious heavy dose of your own baised opinion that I mock.

3rd season results for Dabo and Fleck

Dabo = 10-4
Fleck = 11-2.

Yep, Fleck CAN NEVER EVER even dream of matching Dabo's accomplishments. Yep, you got me, 4 losses in a weak ass ACC conf is much better than only 2 in one of the best conferences.

Minnesota this year, had 5 fellow B1G teams finish in the Top 20 with them.
Clemson this year? lol had ZERO ACC teams finish in the Top 28 with them.


Dabo's 3rd season, when they went 10-4, there wasn't a single ACC team that made the Top 20. WOW, yeah, that 10-4 season which finished off with a LOSS to #23 going into the game WVU, is SO MUCH MORE impressive than UMn's 11-2 season that finished off with a win over #9 going into the game, Auburn.

LMMFGDAO@LAWDAWG!!!

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Fleck, for the most part, redshirts all of his incoming frosh, with a few exceptions.

So, looking at the average of the four recruiting class rankings of the seasons team, along with the rank of the incoming frosh for Fleck's time at Minnesota are as follows.

2017 = 58.25 & 59. Went 5-7.
2018 = 55.75 & 38. Went 7-6.
2019 = 51.50 & 45. Went 11-2.

2020 = 47.00 & 35. But UMn's going to go back to sucking, right? lol

Anyone in the country who has done more with less?


At WMU, he was left total crap and went 1-11 his first season as a head coach at any level. His 4 class average he inherited was 89, with the 108th rated frosh class.

Quick learner, though.

His last 3 seasons, looking at the average of the four recruiting class rankings of the seasons team, along with the rank of the incoming frosh for Fleck's last 3 years at WMU are as follows.

2014 = 92.00 & 71. Finished 8-5.
2015 = 88.00 & 76. Finished 8-5.
2016 = 86.50 & 67. Finished 13-1.


Seriously, has anyone EVER done more with less???