what the broncos showed the skins

[SoCalWizFan]

So now we playing the whole thats not what I meant card.

So I will ask you straight out.

Do you think Cousins is or stands a good chance of being a Franchise QB??

If not... why.

If he isnt, where exactly do you propose we FIND this franchise QB??

Because if you are pushing the vapor of I hope we dont settle for Mediocre, sound like you are saying mediocre is what you expect from Cousins. Or am I reading you wrong on that one too??

This is my pt. There is no formula for either a. how to build a championship team or b. how to obtain the supposed franchise QB. Go back & review all SB champs since 2000. You will see that they all built their teams & won SBs in different ways. Also - even the ones with franchise QBs acquired them in different ways.

Quite a few of these QBs were not top 10 draft picks nor projected initially to be the team's QB of the future. The pt being that you can't simply apply the majority of your resources into finding a "franchise" QB. There is so much more to building a championship team. The Redskins current approach appears to be the correct one & certainly better than any philosophy that they have applied in the last 20 years.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

If I was unclear I apologize but Id like to point out I didnt say we needed to find ourselves a brand new franchise QB and certainly made no comments on how we should do it. Obviously we should build the team. All I said was they are a lot more important than a lot of people realize I think. Case in point being the first post of this thread - we cant act like all we need now is to get a defense as good as Denvers - thats not realistic.

Fair enough. However - go back & read Skinsdad's post - he also indicated that QB play is important - he just stated that it is not the end-all / be-all. In the end talent wins out to including needing a good but not necessarily great QB. I think that we are kind of saying the same thing.

 

[Sharkinva]

This is my pt. There is no formula for either a. how to build a championship team or b. how to obtain the supposed franchise QB. Go back & review all SB champs since 2000. You will see that they all built their teams & won SBs in different ways. Also - even the ones with franchise QBs acquired them in different ways.

Quite a few of these QBs were not top 10 draft picks nor projected initially to be the team's QB of the future. The pt being that you can't simply apply the majority of your resources into finding a "franchise" QB. There is so much more to building a championship team. The Redskins current approach appears to be the correct one & certainly better than any philosophy that they have applied in the last 20 years.

Socal... dont get me wrong, back in the Gibbs days when we had Gregg Williams and a consistent top defense, and all we were really missing was a QB worth a fuck... I was all in on the trade up, draft a franchise QB and you could throw my soul into the bargain. But most of the guys I was looking at were actual QB's and not this new brand of spread option the world revolves around me bullshit.

As we are currently no where near a top ten defense, and I dont see a Peyton Manning clone in the next few drafts, and I would sooner lose my left nut then bring in another Cam Newton.... I think we need to forget about chasing the franchise QB dragon and build the rest of the team and just MAYBE we are shocked and find out Cousins has the goods to be more than just above average.

 

[ehb5]

So now we playing the whole thats not what I meant card.

So I will ask you straight out.

Do you think Cousins is or stands a good chance of being a Franchise QB??

If not... why.

If he isnt, where exactly do you propose we FIND this franchise QB??

Because if you are pushing the vapor of I hope we dont settle for Mediocre, sound like you are saying mediocre is what you expect from Cousins. Or am I reading you wrong on that one too??

By the way I didnt say one of the three should have automatically been a franchise QB. But if first rounders have a better chance of success, one would tend to think that out of three first round QB's one of them SHOULD have become at least above average if not a franchise QB right?

"Hence why I want a franchise QB - not saying Kirk wont be it" - that is my first post in this thread dude.

I dont know what Kirk will be. Maybe he's the next Tom Brady maybe hes mediocre. Are you going to deny that he could be mediocre?

**Side Note - This is why I think you're insane with Kirk dude. I mention he could be both a franchise QB or a mediocre QB and you somehow ignore the franchise QB part and focus on the mediocre thing like I wounded your precious Kirk. Dear God are you defensive of him. - End Side Note **

And this one of three shit...What? First of all 1st Rounders are far better represented at Im guessing every single position in the NFL than any other round. Their success in comparison isnt really up for debate. If it werent 1st rounders would be just as valuable as 7th rounders.

But given that they are more successful - NO! 1 of the 3 wouldnt have to be successful. 3 is not a very good sample size my friend and finding a good player at any pick is difficult (though significantly harder later in the draft)

In comparison I could turn your math around and look at the (I believe it was 04) draft with Eli, Rivers, and Ben and say wow 3 for 3! That means we have a 100% chance of finding a good QB. See why using some cherry picked 3 person sample is VERY flawed?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

i have heard that great qb play wins championships and to some extent it does but denver showed us that defense does too . add seatle to that as well

getting a dominate defense is something we need to strive towards . we need rushers and we need a secondary together working hand in hand

if the broncos can win with the below avg peyton manning (at this point in his career ) we should be able to compete with a KC if and only if success doesnt go to his head

you can be a run oriented team and win as well . you dont need a bell cow to do it but you need a rushing attack

this is an important draft for us and we need to continue to get players and add depth

Really every team is looking at the Broncos and trying to implement some of what they did...I think they have the perfect blend of draft picks, UDFA, and FAs...Not every team can spend $18 mil on two outside CBs, but it's going to be interesting to see how they make Miller's deal work long term with all of those high DEF salaries plus Clady.

 

[ehb5]

Fair enough. However - go back & read Skinsdad's post - he also indicated that QB play is important - he just stated that it is not the end-all / be-all. In the end talent wins out to including needing a good but not necessarily great QB. I think that we are kind of saying the same thing.

Youre right he did, but my whole point to posting was - dont use this DEN team as our justification for accepting mediocre QB play because we'll be waiting a LOOONG time for the defense to carry that QB.

**Disclaimer - Kirk Cousins may still be a franchise QB. Isnt it fun how I have to put this in my posts now or else Shark will yell at me?

 

[ehb5]

Socal... dont get me wrong, back in the Gibbs days when we had Gregg Williams and a consistent top defense, and all we were really missing was a QB worth a fuck... I was all in on the trade up, draft a franchise QB and you could throw my soul into the bargain. But most of the guys I was looking at were actual QB's and not this new brand of spread option the world revolves around me bullshit.

As we are currently no where near a top ten defense, and I dont see a Peyton Manning clone in the next few drafts, and I would sooner lose my left nut then bring in another Cam Newton.... I think we need to forget about chasing the franchise QB dragon and build the rest of the team and just MAYBE we are shocked and find out Cousins has the goods to be more than just above average.

Wait Wait Wait...you wouldnt want Cam Newton?

 

[Sharkinva]

"Hence why I want a franchise QB - not saying Kirk wont be it" - that is my first post in this thread dude.

I dont know what Kirk will be. Maybe he's the next Tom Brady maybe hes mediocre. Are you going to deny that he could be mediocre?

**Side Note - This is why I think you're insane with Kirk dude. I mention he could be both a franchise QB or a mediocre QB and you somehow ignore the franchise QB part and focus on the mediocre thing like I wounded your precious Kirk. Dear God are you defensive of him. - End Side Note **

And this one of three shit...What? First of all 1st Rounders are far better represented at Im guessing every single position in the NFL than any other round. Their success in comparison isnt really up for debate. If it werent 1st rounders would be just as valuable as 7th rounders.

But given that they are more successful - NO! 1 of the 3 wouldnt have to be successful. 3 is not a very good sample size my friend and finding a good player at any pick is difficult (though significantly harder later in the draft)

In comparison I could turn your math around and look at the (I believe it was 04) draft with Eli, Rivers, and Ben and say wow 3 for 3! That means we have a 100% chance of finding a good QB. See why using some cherry picked 3 person sample is VERY flawed?

First off I think the whole use of the word mediocre is meant to be degrading. And sure I admit Kirk could turn out that way. But realistically I think the worst we get is average from him. Mind you I watched this team win three and go to FIVE super bowls with Average QB. So Im ok with that considering i have also watch this team be a complete dumpster fire chasing the franchise QB.

Secondly how am I cherry picking. If 3 first round QBs over a 12 year span doesnt show that we actually need to STOP chasing the high and actually build the rest of the team, I will give you another prime example.... the Browns.

Bottom line, we may have to settle for Average in order to get the rest of the team to the point where we can actually FIND franchise.

 

[Sharkinva]

Wait Wait Wait...you wouldnt want Cam Newton?

FUCK NO. He is yet another narcissistic asshole that feels the world revolves around him and his brooding little bitch press confrence last night just pointed out that he is another cancer. When things go good, he is superman. Im just waiting for the whole... it wasnt my fault rant I fully expect.

 

[Sportster 72]

Nothing has changed in football in the last upteen years. A top QB and or a very good defense can take you a long way. Most often you need both .... and an offensive line and WRs ..... well hell as usual you need a good team.

 

[ehb5]

First off I think the whole use of the word mediocre is meant to be degrading. And sure I admit Kirk could turn out that way. But realistically I think the worst we get is average from him. Mind you I watched this team win three and go to FIVE super bowls with Average QB. So Im ok with that considering i have also watch this team be a complete dumpster fire chasing the franchise QB.

Secondly how am I cherry picking. If 3 first round QBs over a 12 year span doesnt show that we actually need to STOP chasing the high and actually build the rest of the team, I will give you another prime example.... the Browns.

Bottom line, we may have to settle for Average in order to get the rest of the team to the point where we can actually FIND franchise.

Lol youre like a conspiracy theorist. Not everything is a personal attack on the guy.

Youre cherry picking by taking a 3 person sample that you know fits your argument. It doesnt actually mean anything.

 

[ehb5]

FUCK NO. He is yet another narcissistic asshole that feels the world revolves around him and his brooding little bitch press confrence last night just pointed out that he is another cancer. When things go good, he is superman. Im just waiting for the whole... it wasnt my fault rant I fully expect.

WOW. Just WOW. The MVP of the league? The best QB in the league right now? Who's 26? Just took a team with no WRs to the Super Bowl? Might well dominate the league for the next 10 years? That guy? You dont want that guy?

For one I dont care about him being pissed he lost last last night - he should be. He didnt really do anything that bad. And 2 who gives a damn hes amazingly talented.

 

[Breed]

If we had used those picks as you said we might have a solid to above average defense. Not the Broncos defense.

And lets not forget. There's a lot of FAs, high priced FAs at that, on Denver's defense.

 

[Sharkinva]

Lol youre like a conspiracy theorist. Not everything is a personal attack on the guy.

Youre cherry picking by taking a 3 person sample that you know fits your argument. It doesnt actually mean anything.

YOu say Im cherry picking. BUt if you look back, over the past 12 years I would be willing to bet the majority of 1st round QBs have NOT become franchise QBs. So while I pointed out the Redskins failed attempts, the over under on finding a franchise QB in the first round is actually very low.

 

[Sharkinva]

WOW. Just WOW. The MVP of the league? The best QB in the league right now? Who's 26? Just took a team with no WRs to the Super Bowl? Might well dominate the league for the next 10 years? That guy? You dont want that guy?

For one I dont care about him being pissed he lost last last night - he should be. He didnt really do anything that bad. And 2 who gives a damn hes amazingly talented.

I guess I value character over flash. My bad. But I could think of a number of players I would rather have over Newton MVP status be damned.

 

[Sharkinva]

And I get that he was upset because he lost. But to me it shows a decided lack of character, when if you win its all I, me and I am the greatest. But when you lose you pout like a petulant child and have a tendency to blame others.

So no I wouldnt want a player with those tendencies on my team. No matter HOW talented he looks winning.

 

[ehb5]

YOu say Im cherry picking. BUt if you look back, over the past 12 years I would be willing to bet the majority of 1st round QBs have NOT become franchise QBs. So while I pointed out the Redskins failed attempts, the over under on finding a franchise QB in the first round is actually very low.

Well I mean, you are.

And no shit most of them arent. Ive never said they were. Like where do you even get the idea that I think most 1st round picks are QBs? You just pull shit outta your ass.

I still dont even know what youre arguing for right now.

 

[ehb5]

I guess I value character over flash. My bad. But I could think of a number of players I would rather have over Newton MVP status be damned.

I value winning. And he was clearly the MVP. Palmer has a case I guess but who really cares they were both great.
As for long term asset? He's probably #1 in the league.

 

[Sharkinva]

Well I mean, you are.

And no shit most of them arent. Ive never said they were. Like where do you even get the idea that I think most 1st round picks are QBs? You just pull shit outta your ass.

I still dont even know what youre arguing for right now.

Dude.. .you been harping we NEED to find a franchise QB. I ask you where and you throw out the well I just dont want us to settle for mediocre because we need a franchise QB.

SO i have asked you pointedly... where the FUCK are we supposed to find this magical franchise QB so we dont have to settle for mediocre?? You have mentioned 1st rounders have a better chance at success.

Most normal people would think what you are saying is, we have a better chance of finding a franchise QB by drafting one high.

 

[ehb5]

Dude.. .you been harping we NEED to find a franchise QB. I ask you where and you throw out the well I just dont want us to settle for mediocre because we need a franchise QB.

SO i have asked you pointedly... where the FUCK are we supposed to find this magical franchise QB so we dont have to settle for mediocre?? You have mentioned 1st rounders have a better chance at success.

Most normal people would think what you are saying is, we have a better chance of finding a franchise QB by drafting one high.

Ive been very clear I feel a Franchise QB is important. Ive been very clear that Kirk could end up being that. Ive been very clear that I think the best way (proven through history) of finding a franchise QB is in the first round. And Ive been very clear that its difficult to find one even in the first round.

Not sure what your point is?