Westbrook haters, is this what you wanted???

[HurricaneDij39]

The argument/beef against Westbrook was that he doesn't defer enough in crunch time situations, which is said to be "the point guard's job" to do so.

Well, the fact is that against the Jazz the last couple games he has in fact deferred, and they have lost three in a row because of that.

Fact - Through four games, Westbrook is averaging his fewest FG attempts per game in the playoffs since 2010. If you're the undisputed focal point of your team, it is YOUR JOB to take over in dire situations. Westbrook hasn't done that against Utah, and it's a big reason why the Thunder are losing.

 

[CitySushi]

The argument/beef against Westbrook was that he doesn't defer enough in crunch time situations, which is said to be "the point guard's job" to do so.

Well, the fact is that against the Jazz the last couple games he has in fact deferred, and they have lost three in a row because of that.

Fact - Through four games, Westbrook is averaging his fewest FG attempts per game in the playoffs since 2010. If you're the undisputed focal point of your team, it is YOUR JOB to take over in dire situations. Westbrook hasn't done that against Utah, and it's a big reason why the Thunder are losing.

My contention wasn't that he needs to defer in crunch time. It's that needs to make the right play and play efficient basketball. He's still not doing that.

 

[CitySushi]

Also I don't want to see him fail. He's incredibly frustrating because he has all the talent in the world, but plays within a bubble. If you look at it objectively you would see a scary scenario in which a player who has averaged a triple double in two consecutive years could actually be BETTER than he already is. Think about that.

That's what most around here want to see. I'm a fan of basketball and want to see the best product. Westbrook is a great player, great talent, but at the moment not even the best version of himself as a basketball player. Some of that is to do with coaching, surrounding talent, but most certainly himself too.

 

[Cyder]

Also I don't want to see him fail. He's incredibly frustrating because he has all the talent in the world, but plays within a bubble. If you look at it objectively you would see a scary scenario in which a player who has averaged a triple double in two consecutive years could actually be BETTER than he already is. Think about that.

That's what most around here want to see. I'm a fan of basketball and want to see the best product. Westbrook is a great player, great talent, but at the moment not even the best version of himself as a basketball player. Some of that is to do with coaching, surrounding talent, but most certainly himself too.

He's been Carmelo'd

 

[tlance]

My contention wasn't that he needs to defer in crunch time. It's that needs to make the right play and play efficient basketball. He's still not doing that.

Exactly.

Sorry @HurricaneDij39, but this thread is a fail.

I was one of the few saying Russ' 2017 season was extremely overrated. Now I am being proven right because Oladipo is a stud and we are getting exactly the same result from this year's Thunder team as we did last.

Russ is impossible to play with for other stars with offensive minded skill sets. He forces the issue and makes bone headed plays time and again. I don't want him to defer. I want him to learn to use his extreme talents for the betterment of his team instead of his own personal stat line.

 

[Scapegoat]

Exactly.

Sorry @HurricaneDij39, but this thread is a fail.

I was one of the few saying Russ' 2017 season was extremely overrated. Now I am being proven right because Oladipo is a stud and we are getting exactly the same result from this year's Thunder team as we did last.

Russ is impossible to play with for other stars with offensive minded skill sets. He forces the issue and makes bone headed plays time and again. I don't want him to defer. I want him to learn to use his extreme talents for the betterment of his team instead of his own personal stat line.

We've always disagreed on Westbrook. Jordan couldn't get over the hump until he got a coach. Phil also helped kobi. Just being a great player isn't always enough.
Even if you want to us GS as an example they weren't doing anything until Kerr.

 

[CitySushi]

We've always disagreed on Westbrook. Jordan couldn't get over the hump until he got a coach. Phil also helped kobi. Just being a great player isn't always enough.
Even if you want to us GS as an example they weren't doing anything until Kerr.

I completely see where you're coming from. But what as a Thunder Fan do you see as something that could get you (or Westbrook) over the hump? Is it a coach? Is it a teammate? Is it a roster overhaul?

If Westbrook is the focal point, what do you need around him to be successful at a championship level?

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

We've always disagreed on Westbrook. Jordan couldn't get over the hump until he got a coach. Phil also helped kobi. Just being a great player isn't always enough.
Even if you want to us GS as an example they weren't doing anything until Kerr.

Great point.

After yesterday's game, I said Donovan deserves the brunt of the criticism.

He's not brave enough to plant Melo and his washed ass on the bench in favor of Grant and he can't control Westbrook.

If he gets fired, the only guy that would be a worse hire is Blatt.

Westbrook would chew his ass up.

 

[tlance]

We've always disagreed on Westbrook. Jordan couldn't get over the hump until he got a coach. Phil also helped kobi. Just being a great player isn't always enough.
Even if you want to us GS as an example they weren't doing anything until Kerr.

Brooks did him no favors early in his career because he let Russ do whatever he wanted offensively.

Now I think it is to the point that no matter who OKC brings in to coach this team, they will have a hell of a time getting Russ to change. He is too established and has had too much individual success.

 

[Scapegoat]

I completely see where you're coming from. But what as a Thunder Fan do you see as something that could get you (or Westbrook) over the hump? Is it a coach? Is it a teammate? Is it a roster overhaul?

If Westbrook is the focal point, what do you need around him to be successful at a championship level?

GP would be a good fit. I honestly don't think they are that far from being the 3rd best in the west. If you're asking what they need to compete for a title then they need players that can attack the rim or shoot 3's. Also play defense. The Thunder only have 1 player that can shoot and defend and he's leaving this summer. Westbrook can attack the rim and play defense. Melo can shoot at times. Roberson can defend. The bench is full of players a step away for the G league. Patterson looked horrible all season, but that could be coaching. Grant has shown promise. Felton is an average backup. Abrines hasn't developed. And looks like he will never be a good defender.

GS and Houston both have starters that can play defense and shoot or attack the rim and bench players that can do the same.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

The argument/beef against Westbrook was that he doesn't defer enough in crunch time situations, which is said to be "the point guard's job" to do so.

Well, the fact is that against the Jazz the last couple games he has in fact deferred, and they have lost three in a row because of that.

Fact - Through four games, Westbrook is averaging his fewest FG attempts per game in the playoffs since 2010. If you're the undisputed focal point of your team, it is YOUR JOB to take over in dire situations. Westbrook hasn't done that against Utah, and it's a big reason why the Thunder are losing.

One poster in here - stated that it'ss Westbrook's fault because the Thunder have not won a title in the finals, but In that last game - none of them were shooting all that great and I expect that like Kobe - Westbrook has to take a lot of shots because the other players defer to him instead of taking shots and making them. In short - I remain firm with the opinion that Westbrook needs more help - but I think you have give props to the Thunder organization for getting a team to the playoffs by getting Paul George.

Moving on, however I have a hard time believing that Paul George will sign with the Thunder as a free agent - short of a miracle signing and a surprise signing by the Thunder that would make Westbrook - Paul George - The third player - to be a big three and a contender. Anything can happen, so you never know

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Exactly.

Sorry @HurricaneDij39, but this thread is a fail.

I was one of the few saying Russ' 2017 season was extremely overrated. Now I am being proven right because Oladipo is a stud and we are getting exactly the same result from this year's Thunder team as we did last.

Russ is impossible to play with for other stars with offensive minded skill sets. He forces the issue and makes bone headed plays time and again. I don't want him to defer. I want him to learn to use his extreme talents for the betterment of his team instead of his own personal stat line.

What he's doing this series isn't helping either his team or his stat line, so try harder. You've said countless times in 2016-17 that the PG's job is to defer. I could pull it up if you'd like.

 

[tlance]

What he's doing this series isn't helping either his team or his stat line, so try harder. You've said countless times in 2016-17 that the PG's job is to defer. I could pull it up if you'd like.

I have never said it is the PG's job to defer.

The point guard's job is to manage the offense and create opportunities for others. That is not nearly same as deferring. You are getting things twisted as normal.

I did say Russ should have deferred to KD for obvious reasons. Dude is one of the greatest pure scorers to ever play the game. Russ is not nearly as good, yet he took about the same number of shots per game. That is terrible point guard play.

The point guard needs to know when to call his own number, when to create and when to simply move the ball. Russ has no clue there and he seems to default to whatever makes his stat line look best.

 

[trojanfan12]

And once again, Hurricane makes what he thinks is a "gotcha thread".

And once again, it blows up in his face.

No one has said that Westbrook should defer. Everyone has said that he needs to make the right play and remember that there are other very good players on his team and to use them late in close games. "Deferring" on every late possession is no better than shooting on every late possession.

 

[wildturkey]

Remember the OKC team that made the Finals? Their go to lineup at Harden at PG. That was for a reason. The same reason still exist today. Russell Westbrook doesn't understand that getting numbers doesn't always mean getting wins. He's like an on/off switch in that when you turn him on, he's going all out 100% time. He's going to exhaust himself to get every point, every rebound, every assist he can. But its not pure selfishness like Rondo on some of those Cs teams where he was chasing triple doubles. Westbrook thinks going all out is the way you win. He thinks he's helping his team by going all out all the time. It's the best way. Except its not. At least not in a lead guard role. There's periods of time in a game where you might need to slow down, massage a possession instead of going hard all the time. Make a pass that leads to another teammate getting an assist because it balances the floor better. Don't fly in for the rebound on a possession to make sure the team's transition defense stays in tact. Stuff like that. It's stuff that happens in the course of the game in singular possessions that add up over the course of the game. Westbrook has no feel whatsoever how to manage that. Until he learns that, his teams are always going to be flawed. It doesn't matter who is paired with him. They will always have this issue to overcome and considering there was a team that had players the caliber of KD and Harden, I doubt any team can overcome that.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

"Deferring" on every late possession is no better than shooting on every late possession.

So according to the self-proclaimed dynamite logic of @trojanfan12 , he'd be best served to just stand there and shove sticks up his ass.

Got it.

 

[tlance]

So according to the self-proclaimed dynamite logic of @trojanfan12 , he'd be best served to just stand there and shove sticks up his ass.

Got it.

No.

He is saying the exact opposite of that actually.

 

[Black Adam]

No.

He is saying the exact opposite of that actually.

can anyone tell me why chubby cheeks is so worked up over this...?

 

[SJ76]

Stat geeks lol


Russ is a hot mess is what he is

 

[SJ76]

Hey do they have a stat for acting a fool or going bat shit crazy?

My guess is Russ would be top 5 in the NBA