Week 1 Offensive line projections

[DenBronc]

After thinking about it, this is what I think our line will look like opening day:

LT: Clady
LG: Smith
C: Garcia
RG: Vasquez
RT: Scholfield

I think that Garcia will show himself to be the best center in camp. Paradis is more of a backup guy, and Gradkowski is terrible.

As for Sambrailo, I get the feeling that he is a developmental guy, which is why I would have rather had Humphries in Round 1, with the edge rusher in Round 2.

 

[TDs3nOut]

After thinking about it, this is what I think our line will look like opening day:

LT: Clady
LG: Smith
C: Garcia
RG: Vasquez
RT: Scholfield

I think that Garcia will show himself to be the best center in camp. Paradis is more of a backup guy, and Gradkowski is terrible.

As for Sambrailo, I get the feeling that he is a developmental guy, which is why I would have rather had Humphries in Round 1, with the edge rusher in Round 2.

Your prediction looks plausible to me. The more I read about Sambrilo, though, the less I count him out of cracking the starting lineup.

 

[cdumler7]

My prediction is actually that we will have 2 rookies starting in week 1 with the line looking like this...

LT--Clady-This is the easiest prediction of the season
LG--Schofield-He has bulked up 10-15 lbs. this off season so I think he fits well for the LG spot
C--Garcia-I've said this many times in I think he was our best value pick in the draft.
RG--Vasquez-Again easy prediction
RT--Sambrailo-He just is a perfect fit for what Kubiak likes to do at the RT spot. Throw in we have two great blocking TE's in Green and Daniels with some RB's as well that can just be put on the right side to start out the season as Sambrailo grows. The Broncos did this in 2013 when Clady went down of putting most of the help to the left side to help out Clark.

 

[TDs3nOut]

After posting that all reports I've read about Sambrilo are favorable, I came across this piece, which is quite critical of the pick: Ty Sambrailo a dicey pick for Broncos

I find particularly interesting this excerpt from that piece, since, to me, it really highlights just how prone some are to jump to conclusions:

"Instead, Denver added another player who seems like a good bet to be added to the team's list of recent misses in round two. Last year, Cody Latimer (2 catches, 23 yards, 0 touchdowns) was their second rounder. The season before, the Broncos took Montee Ball (731 career rushing yards). And in 2012, they reached for Derek Wolfe (11.5 sacks in three years) and Brock Osweiler (17 completions for 159 yards in the orange and blue)."

Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I am not at all prepared to declare Latimer, Ball, Wolfe, or Osweiler a bust. Can't really understand how anyone can conclude that at this point.

 

[cdumler7]

Here is the problem these days

After posting that all reports I've read about Sambrilo are favorable, I came across this piece, which is quite critical of the pick: Ty Sambrailo a dicey pick for Broncos

I find particularly interesting this excerpt from that piece, since, to me, it really highlights just how prone some are to jump to conclusions:

"Instead, Denver added another player who seems like a good bet to be added to the team's list of recent misses in round two. Last year, Cody Latimer (2 catches, 23 yards, 0 touchdowns) was their second rounder. The season before, the Broncos took Montee Ball (731 career rushing yards). And in 2012, they reached for Derek Wolfe (11.5 sacks in three years) and Brock Osweiler (17 completions for 159 yards in the orange and blue)."

Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I am not at all prepared to declare Latimer, Ball, Wolfe, or Osweiler a bust. Can't really understand how anyone can conclude that at this point.

Here is the problem these days...The draft has been so hyped up that people now just expect if a player isn't starting day 1 and performing at top levels then they must be a bust. That to me is getting in the mindset of the Raiders from the last 12 years. That is how you get yourself in trouble. The Broncos draft not only for the now but for the future. They understand that not all these guys are going to be ready day 1 to be a super star.

As for our 2nd round picks--Osweiler has been behind a HOF quarterback. How in the world is he supposed to win that battle? The Broncos though gave a huge confidence boost towards him this draft by not taking a quarterback until the 7th round. I've also heard he has been doing exactly what Peyton does in texting every pick to welcome them to the Broncos. he is stepping into that leadership role.

Derek Wolfe--Again this is not understanding the type of player that he is. He is not a sack machine. He never was in college and never will be in the pros. What he has been though is one of the best run stopping DE's in the league. I know it isn't him getting the sexy stats but he has been a huge part of why our run defense has been the best in the league over the last 3 years. Throw in his injury did hurt his growth.

Ball--His rookie year he was backing up Moreno who ended up being a Pro Bowl running back for us. Again expecting a rookie to beat a 5th year vet out who played at that kind of level is unrealistic. He still though for the 2nd half of the season played at a very high level averaging something like 6 yards per carry. His Sophomore campaign though unfortunately was derailed by injuries. Just like with Wolfe that can't be helped.

Latimer--He falls in that same position of he was behind two Pro Bowl players at the position. How much playing time is he really going to get? Yes I wish he would have been our 3rd WR in but it was a complicated system that takes time to learn all that Manning expects.

Again this boils down to unrealistic expectations put upon these players. Elway for the most part is drafting not for this year but for next year and beyond. Yes you hope you can get something from some of these guys and I do expect this rookie class to do a bit more than some in the past because we lost a few more starters to FA but if they do nothing year one I'm not going to consider them a bust. This is just like handing out draft grades the minute the draft is done. I'm betting the Patriots didn't know they got a HOF QB in the 6th round. I'm guessing grades on that pick if that were done today would be "Meh" Nobody would expect anything from him. Yet here we are watching him be a HOF. I bet nobody expected Terrell Davis to be the player he was either. It is a complete crap shoot.

 

[randymon]

Here is the problem these days



Here is the problem these days...The draft has been so hyped up that people now just expect if a player isn't starting day 1 and performing at top levels then they must be a bust. That to me is getting in the mindset of the Raiders from the last 12 years. That is how you get yourself in trouble. The Broncos draft not only for the now but for the future. They understand that not all these guys are going to be ready day 1 to be a super star.

As for our 2nd round picks--Osweiler has been behind a HOF quarterback. How in the world is he supposed to win that battle? The Broncos though gave a huge confidence boost towards him this draft by not taking a quarterback until the 7th round. I've also heard he has been doing exactly what Peyton does in texting every pick to welcome them to the Broncos. he is stepping into that leadership role.

Derek Wolfe--Again this is not understanding the type of player that he is. He is not a sack machine. He never was in college and never will be in the pros. What he has been though is one of the best run stopping DE's in the league. I know it isn't him getting the sexy stats but he has been a huge part of why our run defense has been the best in the league over the last 3 years. Throw in his injury did hurt his growth.

Ball--His rookie year he was backing up Moreno who ended up being a Pro Bowl running back for us. Again expecting a rookie to beat a 5th year vet out who played at that kind of level is unrealistic. He still though for the 2nd half of the season played at a very high level averaging something like 6 yards per carry. His Sophomore campaign though unfortunately was derailed by injuries. Just like with Wolfe that can't be helped.

Latimer--He falls in that same position of he was behind two Pro Bowl players at the position. How much playing time is he really going to get? Yes I wish he would have been our 3rd WR in but it was a complicated system that takes time to learn all that Manning expects.

Again this boils down to unrealistic expectations put upon these players. Elway for the most part is drafting not for this year but for next year and beyond. Yes you hope you can get something from some of these guys and I do expect this rookie class to do a bit more than some in the past because we lost a few more starters to FA but if they do nothing year one I'm not going to consider them a bust. This is just like handing out draft grades the minute the draft is done. I'm betting the Patriots didn't know they got a HOF QB in the 6th round. I'm guessing grades on that pick if that were done today would be "Meh" Nobody would expect anything from him. Yet here we are watching him be a HOF. I bet nobody expected Terrell Davis to be the player he was either. It is a complete crap shoot.

Couldn`t of said it better myself. Actually, I couldn`t of said it at all but that`s my prob Good insight and logic which a lot of "writers" don`t possess.

 

[cdumler7]

Couldn`t of said it better myself. Actually, I couldn`t of said it at all but that`s my prob Good insight and logic which a lot of "writers" don`t possess.

This makes me think of those writers after the draft that were saying we gave up way too much to trade up for Shane Ray. They kept saying that we gave up a starting Center which I guess you could say is true but the issue is he was a starter that got benched this past year and really doesn't fit our new scheme. By most people who actually know the Broncos team he was a top target to be cut come training camp. He just doesn't fit the new team at all. The fact that instead of having to cut him the Broncos were able to use him in a trade makes it like we gave up 0 value and really actually gained in the sense we didn't have to give up a premium pick to move up and we got some great salary cap relief. In fact by trading Ramirez we actually pretty much just paid for our rookie salaries for this upcoming season. For those in the know how really the Broncos gave up 2 5th round picks to move up 5 spots and get a top-10 type player.

 

[MileHigh64]

Randymon and CD both bring up something that I've thought for some time now. Most of the NFL "experts" report on a national scale and are rarely accurate when it comes to each team. As a die-hard Broncos fan, I rely much more heavily on the thoughts and opinions of the posters on sites like SportsHoopla than I do on their biased, uninformed reporting. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness and knowledgeable insights from posters on these boards. More often than not, fans of the Broncos are much more accurate on how things might unfold when they apply thought and reason to their suppositions. Just a point that I thought I would make.

By the way, I'm one of those who thinks the Broncos displayed genius in drafting Shane Ray. There may not have been an obvious need at OLB with Miller and Ware but I believe this kid is going to be a GREAT Bronco for years to come. We have to face the reality of Demarcus Ware's age and the importance of never having enough great pass rushers.

I'm very excited about the new Bronco defensive scheme and can't wait to see them on the field. In general, I think the Broncos are flying well underneath the radar going into this season and I couldn't be happier about that fact.

MH64

 

[randymon]

Now that Collins has signed with Dallas, I`am still baffled why Denver didn`t take a chance on him in 3rd rd. By most accounts out there the odds of him being involved were very minimal at best and they could of had a big need addressed and one hell of a potential All-Pro lineman for yrs. Much more to gain in this peticular situation than there was to lose IMO. Not like he was labled a "person of Interest" or he was refusing to cooperate with authorities,etc. I think they blew a great opportunity and buckled down to all the pressure and drama going on in the NFL these last few yrs. Guilty untill proven innocent I say!!!!

 

[TDs3nOut]

Now that Collins has signed with Dallas, I`am still baffled why Denver didn`t take a chance on him in 3rd rd. By most accounts out there the odds of him being involved were very minimal at best and they could of had a big need addressed and one hell of a potential All-Pro lineman for yrs. Much more to gain in this peticular situation than there was to lose IMO. Not like he was labled a "person of Interest" or he was refusing to cooperate with authorities,etc. I think they blew a great opportunity and buckled down to all the pressure and drama going on in the NFL these last few yrs. Guilty untill proven innocent I say!!!!

Since all 32 teams passed on him in every round, I have to think that the league probably told teams not to draft him. Very unfortunate for Collins that he wasn't cleared before the draft.

 

[randymon]

Since all 32 teams passed on him in every round, I have to think that the league probably told teams not to draft him. Very unfortunate for Collins that he wasn't cleared before the draft.

I find that interesting TD. You think that the league itself told teams "not" to draft him? Like there would be repercussions or? Not being sarcastic at all. I find it hard not to think somebody would have taken the chance on a 1st rd pk in 2nd or 3rd rd. Maybe there was some kind of influence by the league to not draft him. IDK, it does seem odd that not one team with a need on the O-line would not have look at the high reward over the low risk in at least this situation. Obviously one thing is certain, domestic violence issue has got alot of teams extremely wary and extremely hesitant to risk the negative media attention that drafting or signing players that come under that suspicion regardless of all the facts or info.

 

[TDs3nOut]

I find that interesting TD. You think that the league itself told teams "not" to draft him? Like there would be repercussions or? Not being sarcastic at all. I find it hard not to think somebody would have taken the chance on a 1st rd pk in 2nd or 3rd rd. Maybe there was some kind of influence by the league to not draft him. IDK, it does seem odd that not one team with a need on the O-line would not have look at the high reward over the low risk in at least this situation. Obviously one thing is certain, domestic violence issue has got alot of teams extremely wary and extremely hesitant to risk the negative media attention that drafting or signing players that come under that suspicion regardless of all the facts or info.

Based only on the fact that Collins was expected to go in the first round, I just can't imagine that at least one team wouldn't have used a second or third round pick to get him, unless there was some directive not to draft him. Could be wrong, but I think that perhaps the publicity from the Hernandez case might have made the league leery of a potential murder suspect getting drafted.

Really a good deal for Dallas. Not so good a deal for Collins.

 

[xBxtxDx]

After posting that all reports I've read about Sambrilo are favorable, I came across this piece, which is quite critical of the pick: Ty Sambrailo a dicey pick for Broncos

I find particularly interesting this excerpt from that piece, since, to me, it really highlights just how prone some are to jump to conclusions:

"Instead, Denver added another player who seems like a good bet to be added to the team's list of recent misses in round two. Last year, Cody Latimer (2 catches, 23 yards, 0 touchdowns) was their second rounder. The season before, the Broncos took Montee Ball (731 career rushing yards). And in 2012, they reached for Derek Wolfe (11.5 sacks in three years) and Brock Osweiler (17 completions for 159 yards in the orange and blue)."

Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I am not at all prepared to declare Latimer, Ball, Wolfe, or Osweiler a bust. Can't really understand how anyone can conclude that at this point.

I do not get this either, yes, Wolfe has done exactly what has been asked of him through the years (with the exception of 2013, but that was due to an injury that could of cost him more than just his career). In fact, a Phillips 3-4 may be perfect for not only him, but Jackson as they are almost the prototypical size of 3-4 DE's, but also have the skill set to be play the one gap penetrating style that Wade Phillip's employs. My worry is not about Wolfe (or Jackson), it is about the depth behind them.

Wow those guys are seriously nitpicking, especially when you consider Brock has been here during PMFM's entire career in Denver, Fox is well known for not playing rookies, and taking injuries into account, as I said, they are nitpicking.

For the OP, Garcia is currently working at the OG position and not at OC. Does that mean a whole lot right now as pertains to the regular season? No, but that is the current state of things and if he and either Shofield or Sambrailo are working at becoming an OG, I would expect them to start over Shelley Smith. Smith is more a career backup.

 

[cdumler7]

I do not get this either, yes, Wolfe has done exactly what has been asked of him through the years (with the exception of 2013, but that was due to an injury that could of cost him more than just his career). In fact, a Phillips 3-4 may be perfect for not only him, but Jackson as they are almost the prototypical size of 3-4 DE's, but also have the skill set to be play the one gap penetrating style that Wade Phillip's employs. My worry is not about Wolfe (or Jackson), it is about the depth behind them.

Wow those guys are seriously nitpicking, especially when you consider Brock has been here during PMFM's entire career in Denver, Fox is well known for not playing rookies, and taking injuries into account, as I said, they are nitpicking.

For the OP, Garcia is currently working at the OG position and not at OC. Does that mean a whole lot right now as pertains to the regular season? No, but that is the current state of things and if he and either Shofield or Sambrailo are working at becoming an OG, I would expect them to start over Shelley Smith. Smith is more a career backup.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Garcia more at guard this year than Center. Have to think that for Peyton Manning he demands a lot from his Center. So having a guy that is just coming into the league still trying to learn the playbook and what it means to play in the NFL it definitely makes sense to try him out elsewhere. Still wouldn't surprise me to see him at Center as that does seem to be his more natural position and I do question whether he has the lateral quickness to handle the LG position required in a Kubiak blocking system.

As for the depth behind them I'm actually looking forward to this group. Antonio Smith probably knows this system better than any other player on our defense not named DeMarcus Ware. So he knows what is expected of him. Throw in he offers something that we haven't really had much of in the middle in he is known as a pass rushing specialist. I actually expect him to be in on our NASCAR package with Miller, Ray, and Ware. He actually finished 3rd this last year in his pass rush grade among all DT's. On the other end of that is Vance Walker. He finished with the 4th best overall grade on the Chiefs defense this past year and his entire grade pretty much came as a run stopping specialist. So essentially we brought in two guys who are specialist in one area and are on complete ends of the spectrum. We can do some very good mixing and matching to figure out the best groups for different situations. I would say this is our most diverse group on the DL that we have ever had. My biggest question right now is the NT position. Sly Williams honestly will be key of whether we are an elite defense or just a good defense (too much talent to be just average). If Sly can live up to his 1st round pick then this defense should be about unstoppable. I do think this defense fits him better so to me he is out of excuses for this upcoming season. Our draft pick fits really well into this system too but I think he is a year away. I watched a few of his games now and man can this kid be awesome. Essentially he is great when he wants to be. In the Iowa game he pretty much lived in the backfield the entire game. Against lesser opponents though he seemed content to just hold his ground instead of attacking the backfield. This is where Kollar will make all the difference. Very excited to see him whip this DL into shape.

 

[DenBronc]

It wouldn't surprise me to see Garcia more at guard this year than Center. Have to think that for Peyton Manning he demands a lot from his Center. So having a guy that is just coming into the league still trying to learn the playbook and what it means to play in the NFL it definitely makes sense to try him out elsewhere. Still wouldn't surprise me to see him at Center as that does seem to be his more natural position and I do question whether he has the lateral quickness to handle the LG position required in a Kubiak blocking system.

I would have Garcia at center right away. He may be the best one on the team right now. Playing him at guard makes no sense.

 

[cdumler7]

I would have Garcia at center right away. He may be the best one on the team right now. Playing him at guard makes no sense.

The broncos are essentially trying to build up an OL that has guys that can play multiple positions. Garcia starting at Guard makes sense in he doesn't have to worry about trying to make all the line calls day 1. This gives him a chance to adjust as he is learning the playbook. I"m sure once actual training camp comes around he will get some work at Center. Some of this could also depend on what the Broncos see in what else they have. They might be very high on Gradkowski or the guy they drafted last year to be a quality starter and see the LG spot as the major hole on the OL. Right now we just don't know.

 

[randymon]

Yeah I agree when it comes to the center position and having a Qb like Manning you need some NFL expierience at that position. Having Garcia thrown in their off the get go would not be smart and prob mean desperation.. The guard position is the easiest of the 3 to get comfortable in a new system/ coaching/etc. I`am sure Garcia and others will get their reps across the line but I certainly don`t see a rookie starting under Manning. It tough enough for a vet I imagine.

 

[DenBronc]

Yeah I agree when it comes to the center position and having a Qb like Manning you need some NFL expierience at that position. Having Garcia thrown in their off the get go would not be smart and prob mean desperation.. The guard position is the easiest of the 3 to get comfortable in a new system/ coaching/etc. I`am sure Garcia and others will get their reps across the line but I certainly don`t see a rookie starting under Manning. It tough enough for a vet I imagine.

The Broncos really don't have anything else at center, though. Gradkowski was terrible (I think that he was rated a -15 by PFF or something two years ago) in Baltimore in his one season as a starter, and Paradis may be nothing more than a backup.

I hope they eventually bring in Chris Myers in a month or so, and I hope that Garcia is the LG over Shelley Smith, who also sucks. I don't want to see the OL we had in Brian Griese's last two years here, when they had Trey Teague at LT and Lennie Friedman at LG.

 

[cdumler7]

The Broncos really don't have anything else at center, though. Gradkowski was terrible (I think that he was rated a -15 by PFF or something two years ago) in Baltimore in his one season as a starter, and Paradis may be nothing more than a backup.

I hope they eventually bring in Chris Myers in a month or so, and I hope that Garcia is the LG over Shelley Smith, who also sucks. I don't want to see the OL we had in Brian Griese's last two years here, when they had Trey Teague at LT and Lennie Friedman at LG.

Gradkowski though was playing in a very bad system where nobody on that line except Monroe and Yanda did ok. Just look at how everyone's numbers jumped up the next season under Kubiak and his coaching staff. Now obviously he saw something in Gradkowski to want to trade for him. Same thing happened with Myers that you are wanting the Broncos to bring in that he just wasn't working out in Denver very well yet then went down to Houston and next thing you know became an All-Pro Center in the NFL. At this point for the OL I would say you have to give everybody a clean slate and not just look at their past. Kubiak has a way of taking mediocre to bad OL players and making them into household names. That is no easy task especially for OL players. Same with Shelley Smith in before he had injuries he actually graded out as a pretty darn good LG in the NFL.

 

[DenBronc]

Gradkowski though was playing in a very bad system where nobody on that line except Monroe and Yanda did ok. Just look at how everyone's numbers jumped up the next season under Kubiak and his coaching staff. Now obviously he saw something in Gradkowski to want to trade for him. Same thing happened with Myers that you are wanting the Broncos to bring in that he just wasn't working out in Denver very well yet then went down to Houston and next thing you know became an All-Pro Center in the NFL. At this point for the OL I would say you have to give everybody a clean slate and not just look at their past. Kubiak has a way of taking mediocre to bad OL players and making them into household names. That is no easy task especially for OL players. Same with Shelley Smith in before he had injuries he actually graded out as a pretty darn good LG in the NFL.

Two years ago, the Ravens only had LG Kelechi Osemele for seven games. They also had Michael Oher playing RT (a pretty bad lineman), and they had Bryant McKinnie starting a few games for them at LT (he was cut early in the year, and then signed by Miami), a player that was at the end of the line. Kubiak may have helped somewhat, but they also got better players, including an upgrade over Gradkowski in Zuttah.