Game Thread: Water Thieves @ Rodominator

[calsnowskier]

Finished his career on the Dodgers, age 44, with 84 plate appearances...but he did have 3 steals and not caught once that year.

I believe he played for some independent leagues after that. He just wanted to play.

 

[SF11704]

Bonds in and Rose out. That is what I woyld expect. But they will still hold it against Bonds wven rhough they never could prove it.

What Rose did was and is unacceptable. What he did to the heart and image of baseball is very damaging. Makes one ... always wonder ...

But as a player .... he was a force. IMHO he will hold a record that I feel will never be broken. I just don't see any player ever passing his 4400 hits in a career. You'd have to average more than 200 hits a season for more than 20 seasons. We don't see 200 hits in a season any longer .. and most careers end well before 20 years

 

[calsnowskier]

Bonds in and Rose out. That is what I woyld expect. But they will still hold it against Bonds wven rhough they never could prove it.

What Rose did was and is unacceptable. What he did to the heart and image of baseball is very damaging. Makes one ... always wonder ...

But as a player .... he was a force. IMHO he will hold a record that I feel will never be broken. I just don't see any player ever passing his 4400 hits in a career. You'd have to average more than 200 hits a season for more than 20 seasons. We don't see 200 hits in a season any longer .. and most careers end well before 20 years

To be fair, I don’t think Barry even denies he used at this point. But all technicalities anyway.

Rose was a beast. He played middle infield for much of his career, but still lasted 20+ seasons. Craw, by contrast, is in his 11th season, and while he will play next season, he is pretty clearly done. 20 year seasons just don’t happen anymore at that level of eliteness.

 

[msgkings322]

Bonds in and Rose out. That is what I woyld expect. But they will still hold it against Bonds wven rhough they never could prove it.

What Rose did was and is unacceptable. What he did to the heart and image of baseball is very damaging. Makes one ... always wonder ...

But as a player .... he was a force. IMHO he will hold a record that I feel will never be broken. I just don't see any player ever passing his 4400 hits in a career. You'd have to average more than 200 hits a season for more than 20 seasons. We don't see 200 hits in a season any longer .. and most careers end well before 20 years

Yep there are some records that it's hard to see ever being broken unless the game changes drastically again (which could happen I guess). The hits record, the stolen base record, wins, strikeouts thrown, all untouchable.

And then there's the ones that are mathematically impossible to ever be broken. Like literally impossible: DiMaggio's 56 will never ever ever be beaten for example. I doubt Rose's 44 will but that seems at least possible. 56 simply isn't.

 

[msgkings322]

To be fair, I don’t think Barry even denies he used at this point. But all technicalities anyway.

Rose was a beast. He played middle infield for much of his career, but still lasted 20+ seasons. Craw, by contrast, is in his 11th season, and while he will play next season, he is pretty clearly done. 20 year seasons just don’t happen anymore at that level of eliteness.

Rose played some 2B at first in the 1960s but was mainly an outfielder, with more at 1B (end of career) and 3B than middle infield. Never played short.

And Rose was pretty good in his 30s, but as a career wouldn't call him a beast. Lifetime OPS+ 118, OPS .784, not much power, lotta doubles. His hits record is the ultimate longevity/counting stat but he did hit for a great average early in his career and lifetime .303, in 1969 he batted .348

17 time allstar, great long career

Pete Rose Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Pete Rose. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[calsnowskier]

Rose played some 2B at first in the 1960s but was mainly an outfielder, with more at 1B (end of career) and 3B than middle infield. Never played short.

And Rose was pretty good in his 30s, but as a career wouldn't call him a beast. Lifetime OPS+ 118, OPS .784, not much power, lotta doubles. His hits record is the ultimate longevity/counting stat but he did hit for a great average early in his career and lifetime .303, in 1969 he batted .348

17 time allstar, great long career

Pete Rose Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Pete Rose. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

I am typically more of a WAR7 guy than a career accumulation guy, but guys like Rose and Aaron and Fisk and Ichiro are the kinds of players that go against that trend. Sometime accumulation is insanely impressive.

 

[calsnowskier]

And another argument against Rose getting in, even after death…

Shoeless Joe Jackson.

 

[pachyderm]

And another argument against Rose getting in, even after death…

Shoeless Joe Jackson.

I'd say no to Rose.

I wasn't even aware of this post mortem deal.

hmmp.

 

[calsnowskier]

I'd say no to Rose.

I wasn't even aware of this post mortem deal.

hmmp.

The “deal” was his lifetime ban. His agreement says nothing about the HOF, but if he is banned from the MLB (which MLB has ignored a number of times), it is hard to induct him into the HOF. Therefore, the argument goes that he shouldn’t be inducted until his penalty is over (his death).