Warriors and Cavaliers, 2014-15 NBA Championship

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

Helluva game by the league MVP

What happened to Delluva no show??





3 down & 1 to go, y'all

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

Stephen Curry carries Warriors past LeBron, Cavs to brink of NBA title

Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors - Box Score - June 14, 2015 - ESPN

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

Helluva game by the league MVP

What happened to Delluva no show??





3 down & 1 to go, y'all

"Delluva" didn't show up in the last game either, by the way.

I'd mentioned a few games ago that there should be no way that Dellavedova should be able to contain Curry one on one, and that he should just take him without the use of the pick and roll.

As for Dellavedova, the idea that he was or could be a shut down defender is a joke. He's a hustler and the points he makes are generally because no one's guarding him...like when he's wide open for a catch and shoot shot on a pass from James. His "great defense" on Curry was overblown because the Warriors were still doing nothing but pick and roll up top, which forced the ball out of Curry's hands on the double team. Ask "Delluva" to guard Curry one on one and it's "game over."

The Dubs should have done more double-teaming of James last night, like they did in game 4, where we won by 21. I think they did it mostly when Iguodala wasn't on James, but he still put up 40 on us. The only player to do any damage in the last game when we did this was Mosgov, who hardly played in last night's game. I imagine that both teams will change things up for each of the last few games, especially their defensive assignments. One thing seems to be clear on GS's side, they are "going small" regardless of what happens. Bogut didn't touch the floor. We still won the rebounding war by 6 and out assisted the Cavs 25-17. 12 of our first 13 buckets were assisted ones.

Look for Cleveland to try the "hack-a-Iguodala" after last night's FT performance. They may try it fairly early on if he's going to continue shooting 2 for 11 from the line. It would be a way of getting Iggy off of James if he misses more than half of his FTs, and it would just get Iggy thinking more about the FTs and possibly missing more of them.

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

Curry treated for dehydration after game 5:

2015 NBA playoffs -- Stephen Curry of Golden State Warriors treated for dehydration after Game 5

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

James full of himself, "I'm best in the world."

2015 NBA Finals -- LeBron James of Cleveland Cavaliers remains confident -- 'I'm best in world'

He also balked at the fact that the Cavs were underdogs to the Warriors when asked about their status before the series started. His record in finals series if the Warriors win this series will be a sterling 2-4. Not so good for the "best player in the world."

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

2015 NBA playoffs: When the NBA Finals went small

A good article and also commentary about the game and series at the same time. Worth the time.

 

[Band of Brothers]

"Delluva" didn't show up in the last game either, by the way.

I'd mentioned a few games ago that there should be no way that Dellavedova should be able to contain Curry one on one, and that he should just take him without the use of the pick and roll.

As for Dellavedova, the idea that he was or could be a shut down defender is a joke. He's a hustler and the points he makes are generally because no one's guarding him...like when he's wide open for a catch and shoot shot on a pass from James. His "great defense" on Curry was overblown because the Warriors were still doing nothing but pick and roll up top, which forced the ball out of Curry's hands on the double team. Ask "Delluva" to guard Curry one on one and it's "game over."

The Dubs should have done more double-teaming of James last night, like they did in game 4, where we won by 21. I think they did it mostly when Iguodala wasn't on James, but he still put up 40 on us. The only player to do any damage in the last game when we did this was Mosgov, who hardly played in last night's game. I imagine that both teams will change things up for each of the last few games, especially their defensive assignments. One thing seems to be clear on GS's side, they are "going small" regardless of what happens. Bogut didn't touch the floor. We still won the rebounding war by 6 and out assisted the Cavs 25-17. 12 of our first 13 buckets were assisted ones.

Look for Cleveland to try the "hack-a-Iguodala" after last night's FT performance. They may try it fairly early on if he's going to continue shooting 2 for 11 from the line. It would be a way of getting Iggy off of James if he misses more than half of his FTs, and it would just get Iggy thinking more about the FTs and possibly missing more of them.

I think the Warriors wore James down enough last night but James is just a super competitor..a warrior. I do agree with you on double teaming him more and getting on his ass when he walks the ball up the court as he rests. Make him work all game ..no reat at all. Close it out. The Warriors have the man power to do it.

 

[CitySushi]

You know, if Bogut keeps on having these "big impact" games like he had in game 4, and if they end up winning the title, we may end up having our first Australian born finals MVP.

You do know that your argument was that Bogut's lack of scoring was hurting the Warriors. Not only have the Warriors won in spite of Bogut not scoring, they're now even winning without him having him hit the court. Maybe his offense wasn't that big of a deal in the first place?

Really if you wanted to win the argument, you should have been hoping for Bogut to play a ton of minutes, score 0 points and the Warriors lose. Otherwise, if they win and Bogut scores little or no points, really it just proves you wrong.

Your argument has evolved from Bogut not scoring to hoping he just flat out fails(which you have repeatedly defended that was not your stance). Bogut may not be involved in this series but there's no way the Warriors are here without him. Kerr has done the right thing and benched him because he was not being effective. It has nothing to do with his offense. On defense he was getting torched and that's why he was out there in the first place. He looked a step slow in this series and that's why he's on the bench.

 

[CitySushi]

James full of himself, "I'm best in the world."

2015 NBA Finals -- LeBron James of Cleveland Cavaliers remains confident -- 'I'm best in world'

He also balked at the fact that the Cavs were underdogs to the Warriors when asked about their status before the series started. His record in finals series if the Warriors win this series will be a sterling 2-4. Not so good for the "best player in the world."

He is the best in the world. This isn't even debatable. I have no problems with him saying it. Just like he also said Steph Curry is the best shooter in the world.

 

[CitySushi]

Man, lost my voice yesterday yelling at the TV.

Its just surreal to me to be this close to the ultimate dream as a fan. I really didn't think I'd ever see this.

Just one more to go. Let's get it!

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

I think the Warriors wore James down enough last night but James is just a super competitor..a warrior. I do agree with you on double teaming him more and getting on his ass when he walks the ball up the court as he rests. Make him work all game ..no reat at all. Close it out. The Warriors have the man power to do it.

Yeah, I really do wonder why they went away from the type of defense on James that only allowed him to score 22 pts in game 4 on 7-22 shooting. I guess they can always change back and forth between games or in the middle of games. As long as we were in the game (or close), maybe they decided to just keep on doing what they were doing and let's see if we can tire them out at the end.

 

[CitySushi]

Yeah, I really do wonder why they went away from the type of defense on James that only allowed him to score 22 pts in game 4 on 7-22 shooting. I guess they can always change back and forth between games or in the middle of games. As long as we were in the game (or close), maybe they decided to just keep on doing what they were doing and let's see if we can tire them out at the end.

They couldn't continue to keep double teaming LBJ because JR Smith and the ancillary players were hitting from the outside in the first half. The Warriors had to keep honest on their rotations and try to stay home because the Cavs were initially hitting their outside shots. They continued to give him different looks but there's no way you're going to "stop" Lebron. He's just a beast.

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

You do know that your argument was that Bogut's lack of scoring was hurting the Warriors. Not only have the Warriors won in spite of Bogut not scoring, they're now even winning without him having him hit the court. Maybe his offense wasn't that big of a deal in the first place?

Really if you wanted to win the argument, you should have been hoping for Bogut to play a ton of minutes, score 0 points and the Warriors lose. Otherwise, if they win and Bogut scores little or no points, really it just proves you wrong.

Your argument has evolved from Bogut not scoring to hoping he just flat out fails(which you have repeatedly defended that was not your stance). Bogut may not be involved in this series but there's no way the Warriors are here without him. Kerr has done the right thing and benched him because he was not being effective. It has nothing to do with his offense. On defense he was getting torched and that's why he was out there in the first place. He looked a step slow in this series and that's why he's on the bench.

You're great at saying what someone said, but, without fail, you never copy their exact words to enforce or validate what that person said. Below is a post which encapsulates my thoughts on how Bogut was hurting the team by not being a scoring threat. Pay attention to the parts in boldface.

CitySushi said: ↑
"I find it amazing how scoring blame can fall on a guy who averaged 6 points a game during the season. LOL.

Last game:
Draymond - 7 points on 2-10 shooting
Klay - 14 points on 6-16 shooting
HB - 0 points on 0 for 8 shooting.

The Warriors lost by 5 points. But yeah, clearly Boguts fault."

Greg's post:
"You do know that I never placed the entire blame of the Warrior losses on Bogut, right? I've talked about Green's inability to have a mid-range game, his loss of his 3-pt shot, Barnes sudden inability to hit open 3-pointers, etc. I simply went back to an argument that was held during the Warrior/Grizzly series....the idea that Bogut did not have to score because he's so good at everything else (which isn't at all true). My problem with Bogut is that he's not even trying to score when he gets the ball in areas where any other center would put up a shot. If he just took the shots that are open to him, whether he made them or not, I'd be satisfied. Cleveland has figured out that they don't need to worry about Bogut scoring because he's become afraid to shoot the ball. When the defense can slough off of a team's center then they're allowed to put more pressure on the other 4 players. It's not rocket science, boys. Bogut has to get out of his unwillingness to put the ball up when he's wide open from 8 feet and in. He can't worry about if he gets fouled and has to go to the FT line and possibly miss some free throws.

Now to debunk your statement that I placed all of the blame on Bogut, I've copied a post that I made after game 3 below. Pay special attention to what I've put in bold-facing. They are my statements where I've said that other players on the team also didn't play well.

"Curry has got to be aggressive from the get-go. He needs to cause the defense of the Cavs to panic about Curry rather than have Curry be shy or timid to jack up his shot. Once Curry establishes his offense, then Curry's passing game will emerge and the other guys will start to get going. Right now anyone other than Curry or Thompson and AI9 are being very hesitant to shoot, like they don't want to shoot for fear of missing. The people were right, Golden State's never being in the finals is harming them. While Cleveland's guys are shooting with no care at all, Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes look like they've never seen a basketball in their lives when it comes to offense. We've reached the point where it's time for David Lee to get some playing time. He doesn't mind shooting the ball. He's comfortable as an offensive player. He's also a good rebounder and a good passer for a big man."

Now, back to your post above: Mine is in bold.
You do know that your argument was that Bogut's lack of scoring was hurting the Warriors."

Correct. And, I was right. His lack of scoring and in fact scoring way less than either of Cleveland's centers was hurting us greatly. And, the other attributes that he has weren't enough to justify having him in the game. What must be why he's been BENCHED.

"Not only have the Warriors won in spite of Bogut not scoring, they're now even winning without him having him hit the court."

Of course they're winning without having him on the court. This actually proves my point, regardless of whether you can admit it. Other guys who aren't afraid to shoot the ball and who aren't completely mismatched by their opposing defenders (T. Thompson and T. Mosgov) have taken up Bogut's slack. See Andre Iguodala's game 4 performance. See Barbosa's game 5 performance. You do realize it's the ultimate insult to a player to be benched, right? However you might try to spin this, Bogut is not being benched because he was playing well. He was benched because we had other players who could overcome their lack of size and contribute to winning....you know, the key to playing?

"Maybe his offense wasn't that big of a deal in the first place?

"His offense"? Don't you mean his "lack of offense"? If we lost 2 very close games and Bogut hardly contributed to the team as far as points, then he is one of the players to place blame on, especially if he passed up wide open short shots.

"Really if you wanted to win the argument,"

I've already won the argument, CS. Bogut's been benched for poor play, particularly on offense. Mosgov didn't have his 28 pt game against Bogut. He had it against D. Green for the most part.

"you should have been hoping for Bogut to play a ton of minutes, score 0 points and the Warriors lose."

No, I'm a Warriors fan, and if I knock one of them for bad play, it doesn't mean that I want them to lose so that I can prove my point. What I wanted mostly was for Bogut to be more offensive than he was being...for him to take the open short shots. When I saw him passing the ball away from the goal rather than dropping the ball into the basket, it made me realize that his inability to score around the basket and also his poor FT shooting was hurting the team. But, Bogut continued his poor non-aggressive play, and because of it, he's been YANKED. It I were coach and if he continued to hurt the team, I would have also benched him.

Otherwise, if they win and Bogut scores little or no points, really it just proves you wrong.

We had lost the home court advantage and 2 consecutive games while playing Bogut. So, we were 1-2 WITH BOGUT. Without Bogut, we're 2-0 and we've won by a combined 33 points. Without personally wanting to bash Bogut, the team, at least for this series, is better without him. If you're arguing otherwise, please state that plainly.

"Your argument has evolved from Bogut not scoring to hoping he just flat out fails(which you have repeatedly defended that was not your stance)."

Can you provide any support for your comment that I "hope Bogut just flat out fails" from any of my posts? Didn't think so. You've again gotten yourself into trouble for saying things that you just cannot back up. Always remember, if you're going to say that someone said something, you should be able to prove they said it because all of what we write is accessible from this forum. Let me know when you've found me "hoping that Bogut fails." LOL

"Bogut may not be involved in this series but there's no way the Warriors are here without him."

Maybe, maybe not. If you replace his enormous salary with another player who plays center, my guess is that we're still 67-15, if not better. I'm allowed to "wonder what if" just as you allowed to with your statement above.

"Kerr has done the right thing and benched him because he was not being effective. It has nothing to do with his offense."

That's your opinion. The analysts say that GS has played good defense for the entire series and that the problem was in fixing their offense. Also, why do the words "not effective", if those were Kerr's words, specifically mean "it has nothing to do with his offense"? Can one not be "effective" on offense? Of course they can. In game 4, the Cleveland guards were "not effective". They shot 7 for 35 from the floor.

Now, if you have anything specific where Kerr says that "Bogut wasn't effective on defense", then please share that link with me. Good luck finding it.

"On defense he was getting torched and that's why he was out there in the first place. He looked a step slow in this series and that's why he's on the bench."

He was being outscored, sure, offensively, but "getting torched"? I think you may be thinking about Mosgov's 28 point game, which was one of the games where Bogut was bench. But, for the record, Bogut was being outplayed by both Thompson and Mosgov on both offense and defense. The right decision was made. Why leave Bogut in the game SINCE HE'S HURTING THE TEAM. Those were words that I said over and over, but both you and the other one couldn't swallow the idea that it was true. What more do you need to know that Bogut was hurting the team than for him to flat out be benched?

I'm guessing that in your book this is another instance of you "crushing me" in yet another argument, eh? All that shows is that you aren't very good at gauging who is and who isn't winning an argument. Same goes for your bozo friend.

 

[CitySushi]

There is no way I'm reading that Greg. Seriously, that's ridiculous. How do you have time to write all that?

You win Greg. I bow down to your expertise.

You have clearly shown that Bogut's lack of scoring has hurt the Warriors immensely.

Does this make you happy?

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

They couldn't continue to keep double teaming LBJ because JR Smith and the ancillary players were hitting from the outside in the first half. The Warriors had to keep honest on their rotations and try to stay home because the Cavs were initially hitting their outside shots. They continued to give him different looks but there's no way you're going to "stop" Lebron. He's just a beast.

They could have tried it and seen if the others started to miss those shots. Smith went 0 for 8 in the second half, I believe. Also, we did "stop Lebron" in game 4, where he shot 7 for 22 and scored 22 pts. Sure, he's a beast", but I just thought we'd continue the same defense on him that worked so well in game 4. Also, those "ancillary" players for Cleveland shot terrible in game 3, the game when we doubled Lebron almost the whole game. In yesterday's game, they (Smith, Dellavedova, Miller, J. Jones, Shumbert) shot 10 for 33 from the floor and 9 for 27 from 3. It seems that either way we played them, those players just aren't good shooters overall, so why allow James to go for 40 if the other guys can't shoot? Smith got hot in the first qtr and made some threes (3?), but he ended up shooting 5-15 from the floor. Now, if Irving was still in the series, the "others" would have shot much better from the floor. But, he's out and we have to realize who the most dangerous player for Cleveland is.....James, and shut him down and force these other losers to beat us. There's always time to make adjustments throughout the game if things aren't going to plan.

 

[CitySushi]

They could have tried it and seen if the others started to miss those shots. Smith went 0 for 8 in the second half, I believe. Also, we did "stop Lebron" in game 4, where he shot 7 for 22 and scored 22 pts. Sure, he's a beast", but I just thought we'd continue the same defense on him that worked so well in game 4. Also, those "ancillary" players for Cleveland shot terrible in game 3, the game when we doubled Lebron almost the whole game. In yesterday's game, they (Smith, Dellavedova, Miller, J. Jones, Shumbert) shot 10 for 33 from the floor and 9 for 27 from 3. It seems that either way we played them, those players just aren't good shooters overall, so why allow James to go for 40 if the other guys can't shoot? Smith got hot in the first qtr and made some threes (3?), but he ended up shooting 5-15 from the floor. Now, if Irving was still in the series, the "others" would have shot much better from the floor. But, he's out and we have to realize who the most dangerous player for Cleveland is.....James, and shut him down and force these other losers to beat us. There's always time to make adjustments throughout the game if things aren't going to plan.

We're talking about game 5 right? Why are you referencing other games for your question about last night's defense. You do know there is no formulaic approach to basketball right? Otherwise everyone would do it and "stop" Lebron every night.

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

There is no way I'm reading that Greg. Seriously, that's ridiculous. How do you have time to write all that?

You win Greg. I bow down to your expertise.

You have clearly shown that Bogut's lack of scoring has hurt the Warriors immensely.

Does this make you happy?

How did I have time to write it? Most of it is copied from your post and from a previous post of mine which debunked the idea that I was laying all of the blame on Bogut. The fact that you suddenly don't have time to read it is sheer laziness on your part and a basic lack of the humility necessary to admit when you're wrong. But, we wouldn't expect anything less from someone who makes statements like "I've crushed you in every argument we've had", and then doesn't bother to back it up.

Yes, I did win, but it's just because the facts support me and not you. Bogut lack of scoring, which stemmed from his unwillingness to even shoot the ball when wide open, was hurting the team.

 

[CitySushi]

They could have tried it and seen if the others started to miss those shots.

-They did try it and in the beginning of the game they were hitting. Thus they had to stay at home for the rest of the game.

Also, we did "stop Lebron" in game 4, where he shot 7 for 22 and scored 22 pts. Sure, he's a beast", but I just thought we'd continue the same defense on him that worked so well in game 4.

Again you didn't read what I wrote on why the defense was different in game 5.

Also, those "ancillary" players for Cleveland shot terrible in game 3, the game when we doubled Lebron almost the whole game

-So what you're saying is that we did the same exact thing in game 3 and game 4 and somehow stopped in him one game, while not in the other?

Smith got hot in the first qtr and made some threes (3?), but he ended up shooting 5-15 from the floor.

-Why do you think that is? Because the defense stayed home against him. They didn't double Lebron in the second half and give JR open shots, which he was hitting in the first. How does this not make sense to you?

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

We're talking about game 5 right? Why are you referencing other games for your question about last night's defense. You do know there is no formulaic approach to basketball right? Otherwise everyone would do it and "stop" Lebron every night.

I'm just supporting the defense which led to us holding James to 22 points at home. Band of Brothers thought we should have done the same thing. Maybe he and I are right?

Also, if James is the "best player in the world", and if top tier players do often get double-teamed, then wouldn't the formula for guarding James really be to double-team him often? It's what Curry gets all the time...double teams.

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

They could have tried it and seen if the others started to miss those shots.

-They did try it and in the beginning of the game they were hitting. Thus they had to stay at home for the rest of the game.

Also, we did "stop Lebron" in game 4, where he shot 7 for 22 and scored 22 pts. Sure, he's a beast", but I just thought we'd continue the same defense on him that worked so well in game 4.

Again you didn't read what I wrote on why the defense was different in game 5.

Also, those "ancillary" players for Cleveland shot terrible in game 3, the game when we doubled Lebron almost the whole game

-So what you're saying is that we did the same exact thing in game 3 and game 4 and somehow stopped in him one game, while not in the other?

Smith got hot in the first qtr and made some threes (3?), but he ended up shooting 5-15 from the floor.

-Why do you think that is? Because the defense stayed home against him. They didn't double Lebron in the second half and give JR open shots, which he was hitting in the first. How does this not make sense to you?

So, why did we beat Cleveland in Cleveland by 21, but only win by 11 at home? Maybe it was because James scored 40 in Oakland and only 22 in Cleveland. His stats are the biggest changes between games 4 and 5. No, it's no guarantee that the results will be duplicated EXACTLY, but it would be hard for me to stray from that type of success. Possibly Kerr wanted to throw them a curve ball and not come out with the same exact game plan...just like Blatt decided to bench Mosgov (for the most part) after a 28 game the game before.

Also, I made a mistake in my post above where I said "Also, those "ancillary" players for Cleveland shot terrible in game 3, the game when we doubled Lebron almost the whole game". "Game 3 should have read "game 4".