Wade: Lebron will never pass MJ

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah, I remember when you got Hughes.

He had upside. But, his shooting never developed.

I wish Wagner wouldn't have gotten sick/injured.

It would have been fun watching him run with Bron.

Sadly, he never got the chance.

Yeah it's says a lot when Cleveland was excited about getting Hughes bc they couldn't get anyone to come to Cleveland. Wagner was a really good shooter, seems like if Cleveland got decent players, they were shooters. But the formula was: Lebron carries the team along with a bunch of role players. Even when they made it to the Finals or deep in the playoffs nobody wanted to come to Cleveland...it's crazy for others to think otherwise.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I agree with this, but I'm not sure i understand the difference between recruiting then and now? He was still the best player (talent) in the NBA at that time. Even with "role players" he got to the Finals way before MJ did. How many role players did MJ have?

Idk when he made to the Finals Kobe and Duncan were at the top. Well first off it's Cleveland, hard to recruit anyone at anytime. He went to Miami, he didn't have to recruit anyone except some role players, Wade AND Lebron recruited Bosh, but Bosh was going to Miami---he never wanted to go to Cleveland. And now Lebron has a young team around him that has great potential, when he recruited Love he at least had Kyrie and a great core around them. It is still difficult to recruit in Cleveland even with this team and the high cap doesn't help either. There is a huge difference recruiting in Cleveland then in Miami, LA, Chicago.

 

[SJ76]

Idk when he made to the Finals Kobe and Duncan were at the top. Well first off it's Cleveland, hard to recruit anyone at anytime. He went to Miami, he didn't have to recruit anyone except some role players, Wade AND Lebron recruited Bosh, but Bosh was going to Miami---he never wanted to go to Cleveland. And now Lebron has a young team around him that has great potential, when he recruited Love he at least had Kyrie and a great core around them. It is still difficult to recruit in Cleveland even with this team and the high cap doesn't help either. There is a huge difference recruiting in Cleveland then in Miami, LA, Chicago.

IMO TT has done more for the Cavs in the playoffs than Love. TT is a definite role player and all Lebron needs at PF or Center as long as he has a Robin like Kyrie at Guard obviously.

MJ had Pippen, but the rest were role players. San Antonio was full of role players as well.

I think Lebron could have made it happen in Cleveland. I mean he's doing it now and finally won 1 ring there. But i get it.. Miami was tempting with Wade, Riley, sunshine, topless beaches in Lebron's early 20s. I lived just north of there in my early 20s and 30s - it's better than Illinois or Ohio in JAN.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

IMO TT has done more for the Cavs in the playoffs than Love. TT is a definite role player and all Lebron needs at PF or Center as long as he has a Robin like Kyrie at Guard obviously.

MJ had Pippen, but the rest were role players. San Antonio was full of role players as well.

I think Lebron could have made it happen in Cleveland. I mean he's doing it now and finally won 1 ring there. But i get it.. Miami was tempting with Wade, Riley, sunshine, topless beaches in Lebron's early 20s. I lived just north of there in my early 20s and 30s - it's better than Illinois or Ohio in JAN.

Lebron had confidence issues in his first stint as well.

Yeah, it was clear he was something special. But, nothing about him screamed killer.

So, top guys were not lining up to play with him.

Guys like Kobe, Jordan wanted to live and die by their own hands. Lebron is/was a bit more passive and preferred playing Team ball.

That's another reason I always thought the Jordan comparisons were ridiculous.

He's way more Magic than MJ.

Even now, I think Lebron will step up and shoot the game winner if he has to.

But, Kyrie is the player who WANTS the shot.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Idk when he made to the Finals Kobe and Duncan were at the top. Well first off it's Cleveland, hard to recruit anyone at anytime. He went to Miami, he didn't have to recruit anyone except some role players, Wade AND Lebron recruited Bosh, but Bosh was going to Miami---he never wanted to go to Cleveland. And now Lebron has a young team around him that has great potential, when he recruited Love he at least had Kyrie and a great core around them. It is still difficult to recruit in Cleveland even with this team and the high cap doesn't help either. There is a huge difference recruiting in Cleveland then in Miami, LA, Chicago.

Love would not even consider the Cavs pre-Bron.

He made that clear.

Bynum and Jarett Jack were the biggest signings they had until Lebron returned.

 

[LAD]

There is a huge difference between being a developed player and being battle tested in the playoffs. Neither player was, and that matters a lot.

Last year the Cavs got to the Finals for 2 reasons:

1) LeBron
2) the east sucked

This year they were healthy and actually had the experience that made them more ready for GS

I couldn't agree more (with the bolded sentence). And I believe my claim was that neither of them needed to be DEVELOPED. I made no mention of whether or not they had any playoff experience- or in your words "battle tested". You brought that comparison up as a rebuttal.

In terms of being more ready for GS this past Finals- I would have to disagree. They were on the brink of elimination by the end of 4 games. And had it not been for the mental mistake of Dray there's a VERY good chance they could still be chasing their first title. One could even argue their performance in the first 4 games the year before was better.

 

[LAD]

Wiggy does not think LeBron is better than Jordan.

The other poster you mentioned probably does, but I have not seen him on this thread. So who are you arguing with?

I can think of one more....

 

[SJ76]

Lebron had confidence issues in his first stint as well.

Yeah, it was clear he was something special. But, nothing about him screamed killer.

So, top guys were not lining up to play with him.

Guys like Kobe, Jordan wanted to live and die by their own hands. Lebron is/was a bit more passive and preferred playing Team ball.

That's another reason I always thought the Jordan comparisons were ridiculous.

He's way more Magic than MJ.

Even now, I think Lebron will step up and shoot the game winner if he has to.

But, Kyrie is the player who WANTS the shot.

What kid in their early 20s living/working in a man's world doesn't go through lack of confidence issues? Imagine being on the Bulls in the mid-80s and in your early 20s and getting beatdown by the Celtics and Pistons? Physically beatdown and mentally. Scoring 50-60 points and still losing.

We are in an age where impatience is the norm so i get it. But i think if Lebron holds out, he finds a few solid role players in Cleveland and finds a Robin as well. Living and breathing every day in Ohio - I'm sure it made it even more tempting to go to the beach.

I think the difference between these 2 and so many current NBA superstars is the 3 years Jordan got at UNC under Dean Smith. Maturity and patience. Jordan was carrying upper classmen's bags to and from buses for games his freshman year. Lebron was already labeled the king and getting paid at the same age.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

What kid in their early 20s living/working in a man's world doesn't go through lack of confidence issues? Imagine being on the Bulls in the mid-80s and in your early 20s and getting beatdown by the Celtics and Pistons? Physically beatdown and mentally. Scoring 50-60 points and still losing.

We are in an age where impatience is the norm so i get it. But i think if Lebron holds out, he finds a few solid role players in Cleveland and finds a Robin as well. Living and breathing every day in Ohio - I'm sure it made it even more tempting to go to the beach.

I think the difference between these 2 and so many current NBA superstars is the 3 years Jordan got at UNC under Dean Smith. Maturity and patience. Jordan was carrying upper classmen's bags to and from buses for games his freshman year. Lebron was already labeled the king and getting paid at the same age.

Yep.

Jordan was a man, mentally and physically, when he entered the league.

Same with Duncan.

But, it was more than that with James.

I think Lebron was afraid to fail.

As far as him finding his Robin in Ohio, we will have to agree to disagree.

Dude didn't win until he found another Batman.

* wonders if Bosh is Commisiioner Gordon or * gulp * Alfred*

Nobody that mattered was coming to Cleveland.

 

[lebron23james]

Lebron already passed MJ

 

[Bulletz]

Lebron already passed MJ

Cool story.

 

[lebron23james]

Love would not even consider the Cavs pre-Bron.

He made that clear.

Bynum and Jarett Jack were the biggest signings they had until Lebron returned.

Not true the year before lebron the cavs added

They added deng, shawn livignston, mo speights, spencer hawes and Seth curry

 

[lebron23james]

Cleveland was at the top of the East before lebron bolted to Miami. Eventually a top FA would have come. Yet he was too impatient.

The same thing you are bashing lebron for, you are praising durant....#Ironic

@tlance

 

[lebron23james]

If only MJ could have recruited... Then we would have never lost a Finals.


Oh wait **

Out of the 7 times lebron has been to the finals, only 1 time has he had homecourt advantage...How many times did Jordan?

and he has only had a favored overall team probably once or twice his entire career....how about Jordan?

The only reason Lebron didn't have the favored team was because his teams was not as good talent wise overall vs his opponents team, lebron was always the best player on the court tho and one of the only players to ever lead both teams in a finals in points, rebounds, assists blocks and steals...and yet he still wasn't favored...Jordan did less and still won because he always had the favored team with more overall talent going against a weaker opponent

That is why the 6-6 argument is so dumb tbh

 

[trojanfan12]

He said there would've been "a greater chance" of staying. Clearly suggesting that there was still a chance he goes to Cleveland if they win... which to me shows that his leaving wasn't about the "going getting tough".

Who knows though, as LeBron himself said, its all speculation and no one knows.

Actually, leaving when the going gets tough is exactly what that shows.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Not true the year before lebron the cavs added

They added deng, shawn livignston, mo speights, spencer hawes and Seth curry

Those were trades and waiver claims.

Maybe you should read back thru the thread.

The conversation is about the Cavs inability to SIGN QUALITY FREE AGENTS during Lebron's first stint.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Lebron already passed MJ

 

[Heatles84]

Out of the 7 times lebron has been to the finals, only 1 time has he had homecourt advantage...How many times did Jordan?

and he has only had a favored overall team probably once or twice his entire career....how about Jordan?

The only reason Lebron didn't have the favored team was because his teams was not as good talent wise overall vs his opponents team, lebron was always the best player on the court tho and one of the only players to ever lead both teams in a finals in points, rebounds, assists blocks and steals...and yet he still wasn't favored...Jordan did less and still won because he always had the favored team with more overall talent going against a weaker opponent

That is why the 6-6 argument is so dumb tbh

He had home court advantage twice in the Finals - 2011 (game 6 loss was in Miami in 2-3-2 fomrat) and 2013 (game 7 win was in Miami with the 2-2-1-1-1 format).

Don't know what that has to do with anything either. You control your own destiny, so go out and get a better regular season record than the Western conference opponent then. Besides, what does having home court have to do with getting swept in 2007? What does home court have to do with 2014 when Miami lost both home games in that series?

This was what made Jordan and his team's better and why they're the center point for any title contending team. With the Bulls you always knew they were going to win. And guess what, Jordan's Bulls didn't have home court in '98 - they won in 6 in Utah when the NBA had the 2-3-2 format.

I'm sure this post is going to make your vagina hurt, so make sure it stays hydrated you shit stirrer.

 

[tlance]

Out of the 7 times lebron has been to the finals, only 1 time has he had homecourt advantage...How many times did Jordan?

and he has only had a favored overall team probably once or twice his entire career....how about Jordan?

The only reason Lebron didn't have the favored team was because his teams was not as good talent wise overall vs his opponents team, lebron was always the best player on the court tho and one of the only players to ever lead both teams in a finals in points, rebounds, assists blocks and steals...and yet he still wasn't favored...Jordan did less and still won because he always had the favored team with more overall talent going against a weaker opponent

That is why the 6-6 argument is so dumb tbh

I do not agree with your conclusion, but you have some decent points here.

Let me be clear. I agree with Wade and I do not think leBron will ever pass Jordan. However, I also do believe when his career is over it will be closer than anybody cares to admit. Finals record gets way overblown.

Think about this hypothetical scenario. Let's say that Durant wins 6 rings in Golden State and finishes his career with a 6-2 career Finals record. That would make Curry 7-2. In that same time, let's give LeBron 4 more trips with 0 rings for 3-8.

Would that make Curry and Durant better than LeBron in terms of legacy? Hell no it wouldn't. They have more talent. They should win. If LeBron beats them once it will mean more to his legacy than 3 or 4 rings for Curry/Durant, IMO.

 

[SJ76]

Out of the 7 times lebron has been to the finals, only 1 time has he had homecourt advantage...How many times did Jordan?

and he has only had a favored overall team probably once or twice his entire career....how about Jordan?

The only reason Lebron didn't have the favored team was because his teams was not as good talent wise overall vs his opponents team, lebron was always the best player on the court tho and one of the only players to ever lead both teams in a finals in points, rebounds, assists blocks and steals...and yet he still wasn't favored...Jordan did less and still won because he always had the favored team with more overall talent going against a weaker opponent

That is why the 6-6 argument is so dumb tbh