Upcoming Bulls documentary likely to be a Bronsexual's paradise

[tlance]

I'm guessing you mean 2016 and not '96. And the main reason the Cavs won was Irvin and Love. In the game 7, Kevin Love was +19, Kyrie was +10, Lebron was +4.
Kyrie hit the dagger 3 pointer with under a minute to go.

Saying Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving wouldn't be a playoff team, when they'd have the $31 million dollars off the books from Lebron to fill out the roster, is ridiculous, ESPECIALLY in the pathetic East.

And you can literally watch what happened with Jordan and Pippen on Sunday's. Pippen became who he was, because of Jordan. He pushed every single player on the team. When he couldn't beat the Pistons -- he didn't say -- I'm going to team up with other stars to get a title. That is what Lebron did. Not once, but twice.
Jordan put on weight to handle the beating, he pushed his teammates to get the best out of them, he helped turn Pippen from a scared player to one who would get in the face of the opposing teams.

I think Lebron is a tremendous all time talent, but I just laugh when people want to mention him in the same breathe as Jordan. You get to watch firsthand from his teammates and opponents mouths how obsessed Jordan was with winning. If Lebron had that 'it' factor Jordan had -- he would have more titles than Jordan by now. You are either born with it or you aren't. He wasn't.

Lebron's god given physical traits are second to none. He just doesn't have that win at all cost attitude, step on your own mom's throat to win and the desire to be the one with the ball with the game on the line. That's why Irving was a great player to have on his side and Wade was a great player to have on his side.

In the end, it is all opinion. But if I'm picking the GOAT -- it begins and ends with Jordan. The rest are all talking about who is 2nd on down.

The first half of this point earned you a well deserved face palm.

The rest is actually pretty good.

I do agree that Jordan is ahead of LeBron. But only slightly. it is very close and I wouldn’t argue too hard against either opinion.

What I do take issue with is the team accomplishment/Finals record argument. Kyrie is as selfish as they come and Love is honestly just a good player who posts a lot of empty stats.

And regarding Love, I think I heard that over the course of 4 NBA Finals, Cleveland had a better plus minus in the minutes Love was off the court than the minutes he was on it.

Let that sink in before you try to use +/- for 1 random game to prove Love’s value.

 

[msgkings322]

For me Larry Legend's one of the 6 best of all time. But maybe I'm a bit biased.

I almost listed him. You can definitely make a case.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I would say that you should know one game plus minus is kind of meaningless, but knowing you maybe not. If you think they would have won that game 7 with a lesser small forward instead of LeBron then LOL more at you.

Lebron went 9/24 (1 for 5 from 3) -- It isn't like he had an otherworldly game.

And in a regular season game -- yes, one game is meaningless. In game 7 of the NBA finals -- Going out on a limb and saying it is pretty meaningful.

 

[msgkings322]

Lebron went 9/24 (1 for 5 from 3) -- It isn't like he had an otherworldly game.

And in a regular season game -- yes, one game is meaningless. In game 7 of the NBA finals -- Going out on a limb and saying it is pretty meaningful.

Good God you're stupid

I'm sure LeBron being on the floor had nothing to do with how well the other players did. And that block of Iguodala that only LeBron could have made out of maybe all players in history that sealed the game...meaningless

Just quit while you're behind.

 

[Wamu]

Lebron went 9/24 (1 for 5 from 3) -- It isn't like he had an otherworldly game.

And in a regular season game -- yes, one game is meaningless. In game 7 of the NBA finals -- Going out on a limb and saying it is pretty meaningful.

Your real issue with LeBron is he's from Ohio. Which is stupid because your man-crush Jimmy Jam's also from that state.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Good God you're stupid

I'm sure LeBron being on the floor had nothing to do with how well the other players did. And that block of Iguodala that only LeBron could have made out of maybe all players in history that sealed the game...meaningless

Just quit while you're behind.

It was a chase down block -- you act like it was an act of athleticism never seen before. Tayshaun Prince did the EXACT same thing to Reggie Miller.
The reason the blocks are given such high praise is the timing of when they happened. Has nothing to do with other players not being able to do it. Saying Lebron is the only player who could do that in the history of the NBA is ignorance at the highest level.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The first half of this point earned you a well deserved face palm.

The rest is actually pretty good.

I do agree that Jordan is ahead of LeBron. But only slightly. it is very close and I wouldn’t argue too hard against either opinion.

What I do take issue with is the team accomplishment/Finals record argument. Kyrie is as selfish as they come and Love is honestly just a good player who posts a lot of empty stats.

And regarding Love, I think I heard that over the course of 4 NBA Finals, Cleveland had a better plus minus in the minutes Love was off the court than the minutes he was on it.

Let that sink in before you try to use +/- for 1 random game to prove Love’s value.

I could see a lot of guys on Cleveland having a plus/minus in the negative for Cleveland. That's what happens when you have a losing record in the finals. I'd wager Lebron has a plus/minus in the negative for his 9 NBA finals. That's what happens when you lose more than you win.

 

[Jiddy]

Not better, sure
Not close? Don't be dumb

Sorry man...but Jordan carried the Bulls in ways that Lebron has never done. He did it all. Offense...Defense...Carrying the load. Jordan was railed early on in his career for never getting over the hump despite just f*cking taking over games like nobody's business because the teams in the 80s were just nutso good. The minute he got some help and the opponents at the top weren't teams with various mainstay champion-type teams with 3+ hall of famers on them, the Bulls were unstoppable. He doesn't retire and they win 8 straight. Lebron cannot match that. He was always beatable at the highest level of the game. Jordan was not.

 

[msgkings322]

It was a chase down block -- you act like it was an act of athleticism never seen before. Tayshaun Prince did the EXACT same thing to Reggie Miller.
The reason the blocks are given such high praise is the timing of when they happened. Has nothing to do with other players not being able to do it. Saying Lebron is the only player who could do that in the history of the NBA is ignorance at the highest level.

I said maybe but sure I'll rescind that part...ignorance at the highest level is saying the MAIN reason the Cavs won the title is Kyrie and Love.

Face it, you got out over your skis with this and now you are too embarrassed to admit you fucked up. It's ok, playa.

 

[msgkings322]

Sorry man...but Jordan carried the Bulls in ways that Lebron has never done. He did it all. Offense...Defense...Carrying the load. Jordan was railed early on in his career for never getting over the hump despite just f*cking taking over games like nobody's business because the teams in the 80s were just nutso good. The minute he got some help and the opponents at the top weren't teams with various mainstay champion-type teams with 3+ hall of famers on them, the Bulls were unstoppable. He doesn't retire and they win 8 straight. Lebron cannot match that. He was always beatable at the highest level of the game. Jordan was not.

Man you sound like a Bulls fan with this
....oh wait

 

[Jiddy]

Man you sound like a Bulls fan with this
....oh wait

I firsthand witnessed them both living in Chicago from birth until 2000 and then down here in Florida in Miami Heat territory until now. Of course I'm biased, there's no way I couldn't be...but I did witness them both play over thousands (in Jordan's case) and hundreds (in Lebron's case) games...and sorry, Lebron was not MJ. As a Physical specimen he is/was unlike any other...but mentally, as a competitor, or hell, even in pure results? It's not close. MJ's retirement is the only thing stopping us from laughing this off and saying "8 straight championships...Conversation over."

 

[msgkings322]

I firsthand witnessed them both living in Chicago from birth until 2000 and then down here in Florida in Miami Heat territory until now. Of course I'm biased, there's no way I couldn't be...but I did witness them both play over thousands (in Jordan's case) and hundreds (in Lebron's case) games...and sorry, Lebron was not MJ. As a Physical specimen he is/was unlike any other...but mentally, as a competitor, or hell, even in pure results? It's not close. MJ's retirement is the only thing stopping us from laughing this off and saying "8 straight championships...Conversation over."

Blah blah blah you're saying the same shit everyone does. Calling MJ the GOAT is pretty much the correct call, even I agree, but saying it's not close is dumb

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Sorry man...but Jordan carried the Bulls in ways that Lebron has never done. He did it all. Offense...Defense...Carrying the load. Jordan was railed early on in his career for never getting over the hump despite just f*cking taking over games like nobody's business because the teams in the 80s were just nutso good. The minute he got some help and the opponents at the top weren't teams with various mainstay champion-type teams with 3+ hall of famers on them, the Bulls were unstoppable. He doesn't retire and they win 8 straight. Lebron cannot match that. He was always beatable at the highest level of the game. Jordan was not.

I agree to a point, but that's because Jordan had easier rules to play about - Back then Jordan was allowed to take two to four steps before jumping and shooting - LeBron has never been given that kind of latitude. In addition, Michael Jordan was also allowed to use his elbows considerably to clear space between him and the players before taking his shot. LeBron would be given technical fouls for that today - So in many ways - The game is tougher to play then it was in Jordan's time.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I said maybe but sure I'll rescind that part...ignorance at the highest level is saying the MAIN reason the Cavs won the title is Kyrie and Love.

Face it, you got out over your skis with this and now you are too embarrassed to admit you fucked up. It's ok, playa.

Yes -- If Love isn't +19 in game 7 when he was on the floor. Does Cleveland win? The next closest player on the team was Kyrie at +10. Cleveland won by 4.

What happens if they lose game 7? Do they win a ring? No.

My original comment was in regards to game 7, you are the one who stretched it out to meaning the season?!?

And yes -- Saying a chase down block that happens dozens of times a year is somehow a thing only Lebron can do in the History of the NBA is asinine. They made a big deal about it because of when it happened, not because it happened.

 

[msgkings322]

Yes -- If Love isn't +19 in game 7 when he was on the floor. Does Cleveland win? The next closest player on the team was Kyrie at +10. Cleveland won by 4.

What happens if they lose game 7? Do they win a ring? No.

My original comment was in regards to game 7, you are the one who stretched it out to meaning the season?!?

And yes -- Saying a chase down block that happens dozens of times a year is somehow a thing only Lebron can do in the History of the NBA is asinine. They made a big deal about it because of when it happened, not because it happened.

And you not letting go of your stupid take that LeBron wasn't the biggest reason they won the title including game seven is beyond dumb. Just stop. None of us get them all right including me. I just backed off my overstatement, can you?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And you not letting go of your stupid take that LeBron wasn't the biggest reason they won the title including game seven is beyond dumb. Just stop. None of us get them all right including me. I just backed off my overstatement, can you?

What is there to back off of?

Cleveland was -19 in game 7 with Love on the bench, a game they won by 4. They were -10 with Irving on the bench in game 7.

If I had said -- Love and Irving were the main reason they won for the season. Yes -- Thatd be an idiotic statement. When you win by 4 and a guy is +19 for the game. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how much he meant for the teams success in that game.

 

[msgkings322]

What is there to back off of?

Cleveland was -19 in game 7 with Love on the bench, a game they won by 4. They were -10 with Irving on the bench in game 7.

If I had said -- Love and Irving were the main reason they won for the season. Yes -- Thatd be an idiotic statement. When you win by 4 and a guy is +19 for the game. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how much he meant for the teams success in that game.

If you don't know why one game plus minus is pretty meaningless, or how great players help other players get their numbers, then we're done here.

Again you said Love and Irving were the MAIN reason the Cavs won the title. Then you decided to just focus on game 7. In which LeBron was very necessary for the Cavs to win. So that's just stupid. You can keep digging this hole if you want, it's a free country.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If you don't know why one game plus minus is pretty meaningless, or how great players help other players get their numbers, then we're done here.

Again you said Love and Irving were the MAIN reason the Cavs won the title. Then you decided to just focus on game 7. In which LeBron was very necessary for the Cavs to win. So that's just stupid. You can keep digging this hole if you want, it's a free country.

I posted the game 7 +\- numbers from the beginning. And AGAIN the reason I said they were the main reason is..............if you lose game 7. YOU DON'T WIN A RING.

I even said afterward, once you tried turning into a talk about the whole series/season -- that of course Lebron is the main reason for that. But if not for the performances of Love and Irving in game 7 -- They were +19 and +10 -- GSW has another title.

 

[msgkings322]

I posted the game 7 +\- numbers from the beginning. And AGAIN the reason I said they were the main reason is..............if you lose game 7. YOU DON'T WIN A RING.

I even said afterward, once you tried turning into a talk about the whole series/season -- that of course Lebron is the main reason for that. But if not for the performances of Love and Irving in game 7 -- They were +19 and +10 -- GSW has another title.

I said good day, sir!

 

[tlance]

I could see a lot of guys on Cleveland having a plus/minus in the negative for Cleveland. That's what happens when you have a losing record in the finals. I'd wager Lebron has a plus/minus in the negative for his 9 NBA finals. That's what happens when you lose more than you win.

I think you misunderstood.

I am ballparking here, but Cleveland’s plus minus with Love on the bench or injured was something like -70

and their plus minus with Love on the court was something like -85

and because he missed an entire series, a full game in another and got benched for large stretches in 2016 Finals, the minute totals were pretty close to equal.