Upcoming Bulls documentary likely to be a Bronsexual's paradise

[TrustMeIamRight]

I think you misunderstood.

I am ballparking here, but Cleveland’s plus minus with Love on the bench or injured was something like -70

and their plus minus with Love on the court was something like -85

and because he missed an entire series, a full game in another and got benched for large stretches in 2016 Finals, the minute totals were pretty close to equal.

I am not sure on that and I've never seen an article or anything about it. In regards to why I made the original statement -- it was made regarding only game 7 Cleveland won on the road against GSW. MSG turned it into a full season, all of the playoffs discussion.

I will say though, I am not surprised though many players who have played with Lebron in NBA finals will have negative plus minus, as Lebron's teams are like 15 games under .500 in the NBA finals. That comes with the territory when you are that many games under .500.

 

[trojanfan12]

Wilt never lacked confidence. lol

 

[msgkings322]

I am not sure on that and I've never seen an article or anything about it. In regards to why I made the original statement -- it was made regarding only game 7 Cleveland won on the road against GSW. MSG turned it into a full season, all of the playoffs discussion.

I will say though, I am not surprised though many players who have played with Lebron in NBA finals will have negative plus minus, as Lebron's teams are like 15 games under .500 in the NBA finals. That comes with the territory when you are that many games under .500.

Quit lying, I never said either of those. I did say LeBron was the main reason they won the Finals, after you said Kyrie and Love were the main reason.

You lie worse than Trump.

 

[msgkings322]

Wilt never lacked confidence. lol

He has a case, like I said above at that level there's no way to 'prove' who was better. Too many variables: eras, coaches, teammates, opponents, rules, etc. Wilt is on the GOAT list, and I do think one can say MJ maybe is #1, but really it's not provable.

 

[trojanfan12]

He has a case, like I said above at that level there's no way to 'prove' who was better. Too many variables: eras, coaches, teammates, opponents, rules, etc. Wilt is on the GOAT list, and I do think one can say MJ maybe is #1, but really it's not provable.

I agree.

There are a few players that you can make a solid case for being GOAT, imo.

MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Lebron to name a few.

Over the years, I've rotated MJ, Magic and Kareem as GOAT. lol

 

[SJ76]

I lived in Chicago during the entire Jordan years...and Eastern Florida during the entire Lebron years.

Lebron is not better than Jordan. It's not that close either.

Nnnnnneresting what is your basis for this opinion of yours?

 

[SJ76]

For me Larry Legend's one of the 6 best of all time. But maybe I'm a bit biased.

When Larry’s ESPN 30 for 30 comes out everyone can see how great that dude was too. Definitely in my top 6-10

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Quit lying, I never said either of those. I did say LeBron was the main reason they won the Finals, after you said Kyrie and Love were the main reason.

You lie worse than Trump.

I was talking about game 7 and even included the plus/minus for game 7. Why? Because if they lose game 7, they have no ring. The +19 would rank in the top 5 for Lebron over all of his final games in his career -- that's why it is a big deal.

That is the same reason they make a big deal about Lebron's block. Not because it was extraordinary feat of athleticism, never seen before. Because it happened in game 7.

 

[tlance]

I am not sure on that and I've never seen an article or anything about it. In regards to why I made the original statement -- it was made regarding only game 7 Cleveland won on the road against GSW. MSG turned it into a full season, all of the playoffs discussion.

I will say though, I am not surprised though many players who have played with Lebron in NBA finals will have negative plus minus, as Lebron's teams are like 15 games under .500 in the NBA finals. That comes with the territory when you are that many games under .500.

But how do you explain their plus minus was better with Love out of the game? In a near equal minute total?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

He has a case, like I said above at that level there's no way to 'prove' who was better. Too many variables: eras, coaches, teammates, opponents, rules, etc. Wilt is on the GOAT list, and I do think one can say MJ maybe is #1, but really it's not provable.

I prefer to say that MJ was one of the best and definitely in the top five players of all time - I have said for years that you cannot say that one particular player like MJ is definitely best - MJ played a completely different game then what LeBron has to play - but I do think that if you replaced Michael Jordan with Lebron - then I think they still get six rings.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

But how do you explain their plus minus was better with Love out of the game? In a near equal minute total?

Show me where that is at -- I'd have to look at it. I'm thinking if Cleveland felt they were just as good or better without Love, they never would have extended him.
Personally I didn't think he was a good fit with Lebron.

 

[thunderc]

I prefer to say that MJ was one of the best and definitely in the top five players of all time - I have said for years that you cannot say that one particular player like MJ is definitely best - MJ played a completely different game then what LeBron has to play - but I do think that if you replaced Michael Jordan with Lebron - then I think they still get six rings.

not a chance in hell Lebron would have drove those guys to do that, no way. Whose going to close out the games Jordan did? I sure hope you aren’t saying lebron.

 

[tlance]

Show me where that is at -- I'd have to look at it. I'm thinking if Cleveland felt they were just as good or better without Love, they never would have extended him.
Personally I didn't think he was a good fit with Lebron.

Didn’t say they were better without him.

What I said is that he wasn’t the huge difference maker you made him out to be. Especially not against the Warriors.

 

[tlance]

not a chance in hell Lebron would have drove those guys to do that, no way. Whose going to close out the games Jordan did? I sure hope you aren’t saying lebron.

We will never know.

But there is a non zero chance that they would actually respond better playing alongside a leader with LeBron’s personality vs. MJ’s.

MJ was a lot to take and I would say a lot of players might respond better to gentler leadership approaches.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Didn’t say they were better without him.

What I said is that he wasn’t the huge difference maker you made him out to be. Especially not against the Warriors.

How many times do I have to say Game 7?!? Lebron only has 4 games out of the 50 or so games in the NBA finals where he finished better than +19. That is what Kevin Love was for game 7. In a 4 point win, Love was +19.

I didn't mean Kevin Love carried them to the finals. It is quite obvious that was Lebron, as it'd be with any team he is on, as they run the offense thru him. I said Love was one of the main reasons they won, because if they lost game 7 -- they obviously don't win a ring.

 

[tlance]

How many times do I have to say Game 7?!? Lebron only has 4 games out of the 50 or so games in the NBA finals where he finished better than +19. That is what Kevin Love was for game 7. In a 4 point win, Love was +19.

I didn't mean Kevin Love carried them to the finals. It is quite obvious that was Lebron, as it'd be with any team he is on, as they run the offense thru him. I said Love was one of the main reasons they won, because if they lost game 7 -- they obviously don't win a ring.

Cmon man.

+/- in 1 random game is utterly meaningless.

Fact is Love played pretty poorly that whole series. He was 3-9 from the field with 9 points and 0-3 from the 3 point line. Yes he had 14 rebounds and played good defense on that 1 Curry possession at the end of the game:

Cleveland won that game because Kyrie and LeBron both played well while Curry and Klay didn’t.

Love was not anything close to the “main reason they won that game”. He did his job. It wasn’t a particularly good game for him though.

 

[Jiddy]

Nnnnnneresting what is your basis for this opinion of yours?

What wouldn't be the basis?

Jordan's only losing:

Rookie Season: Milwaukee Bucks in the first round. Averaged 30 PPG on an inherited 27 win team.
Year 2: Lost to the 80s Celtics, one of the greatest teams of all time
Year 3: 80s Celtics again
Year 4: Bad Boy Pistons
Year 5: Bad Boy Pistons
Year 7: Bad Boy Pistons

Won everything else sans that one goofy "just came back" season where he wore 45 and Horace Grant turned all Chicago fans who loved him into haters and the Wizards bullsh*t.

The dude was only stopped by two all-time great teams, or it is possible he ran out 10+ championships.

Lebron didn't even make the f*cking playoffs last year. Jordan never missed the playoffs...even at at 38-39 after 3 years off with the Wizards.

Much less never losing a Finals series.

And, as stated previously, I witnessed both of them play firsthand many many times...The eye test even says Jordan. Lebron is what he is...A physical specimen. He isn't the baller that Jordan was.

Here's one: If somebody asked you "Give me the top 5 athletes all-time in sports" (not basketball, sports) Every single one would have Jordan. The vast majority would NOT have Lebron. (I would say all, but there's always that one or two exceptions)

It's...not...close.

 

[lebron23james]

 

[Stakesarehigh]

LeBron is a better human being for sure.

Couldn't back a Senator against a noted racist. Not that that would've changed history with that but damn man.

 

[bksballer89]

Jordan 1-3 in the playoffs against the bad boy pistons.

Never forget