Tyrann Mathieu (Honey Badger)

[4down20]

And to be fair, here is a video that shows some of his better moments. But not many of them.

 

[SEC Official]

Why not? His athleticism, instincts, aggressiveness and ball skills are elite. Kids a football player his height isn't that large a problem.

If he can stay out of trouble... he can play multiple positions.. including special teams. That is what makes him so good... he may not be the absolute best at any one position, but the fact that he can be a really good in all of them makes him strong.

CB, Safety, punt returner, kick returner, maybe even some offense if they need him..

 

[purguy12]

Imac what are you talking about. This happens all the time. We don't put Rogers on other teams #1's all the time. its all about mismatchs. u aren't going to put Honey badger on Calvin Johnson. Just doesn't make sense. No one is saying he is a #1 CB. He can be a #2 or #3 and be good at special teams. That would be a positive for Arizona.

 

[imac_21]

Imac what are you talking about. This happens all the time. We don't put Rogers on other teams #1's all the time. its all about mismatchs. u aren't going to put Honey badger on Calvin Johnson. Just doesn't make sense. No one is saying he is a #1 CB. He can be a #2 or #3 and be good at special teams. That would be a positive for Arizona.

So, just to be clear, a comment was made that Matthieu is elite in aggression, instinct, ball skills and athleticism but isn't a #1 CB.

And you're right, we don't put Rogers on the other team's #1 at all times. The Raiders didn't do it with Nnamdi either. Which reinforces my point. The defense doesn't dictate the matchups. The Jets are the only team since Deion to match up a CB with a specific WR. Rogers plays LCB for us. Whoever comes to that side he covers. Brown plays RCB, whoever comes to that side he covers. When we went nickel last year Cully played LCB and whoever comes to that side he covers while Rogers covers whoever is in the slot.

If you are actively going to avoid matching Matthieu up with certain WRs you are going to be displacing your other CB(s) as well. A CB isn't worth a first round pick if you have to actively avoid matching him up against certain WRs.

If Matthieu is your slot CB and you're playing Detroit, what do you do if Megatron lines up in the slot? Do you put Peterson in the slot, where he doesn't have experience, and move Matthieu outside?

If you're playing Dallas and they put Austin, Bryant and Witten on the field do you sit Matthieu? What if you're playing TB and he has to choose between Mike Williams (6'2) and Vincent Jackson (6'5)? How do you avoid the mismatch there? Are you going to put him on Roddy White, Julio Jones or Tony Gonzales?

Offenses create matchups, defenses react to them. If the defense is trying to dictate matchups they are in a lot of trouble.

 

[Runeman]

I like tyrann, but am conserned he will get exposed for his lack of height by taller receivers. That said, he is exciting on kick return teams.

 

[JDM]

The kid was a 1st rd pick before he got kicked off. Overall great job by Arizona. I think he will do fine. Also he doesnt have to face 6'4 Wrs. A smart coach would but him against smaller WRs.

Which against a lot of teams means he is a slot guy at best.

 

[CakesW]

The guy he mostly plays like (Troy Polomalu) isn't that big either... he's just heavier...

While I'm not saying that the Badger is going to be that good, he will be playing the same type of FS that Polomalu does for the Steelers. Todd Bowles will have him in position to make plays... He'll be a Nickel, he'll cover the slot, he'll blitz... He won't be left on two many islands where he has to deal with huge mismatches.

 

[CakesW]

So, just to be clear, a comment was made that Matthieu is elite in aggression, instinct, ball skills and athleticism but isn't a #1 CB.

And you're right, we don't put Rogers on the other team's #1 at all times. The Raiders didn't do it with Nnamdi either. Which reinforces my point. The defense doesn't dictate the matchups. The Jets are the only team since Deion to match up a CB with a specific WR. Rogers plays LCB for us. Whoever comes to that side he covers. Brown plays RCB, whoever comes to that side he covers. When we went nickel last year Cully played LCB and whoever comes to that side he covers while Rogers covers whoever is in the slot.

If you are actively going to avoid matching Matthieu up with certain WRs you are going to be displacing your other CB(s) as well. A CB isn't worth a first round pick if you have to actively avoid matching him up against certain WRs.

If Matthieu is your slot CB and you're playing Detroit, what do you do if Megatron lines up in the slot? Do you put Peterson in the slot, where he doesn't have experience, and move Matthieu outside?

If you're playing Dallas and they put Austin, Bryant and Witten on the field do you sit Matthieu? What if you're playing TB and he has to choose between Mike Williams (6'2) and Vincent Jackson (6'5)? How do you avoid the mismatch there? Are you going to put him on Roddy White, Julio Jones or Tony Gonzales?

Offenses create matchups, defenses react to them. If the defense is trying to dictate matchups they are in a lot of trouble.

That's the whole thing... he ISN'T a CB, he's a Free Safety now, and a Nickel CB...

He'll always be flanked by Patrick Peterson, Antoine Cason and Jerraud Powers, and he'll have the help of SS Rashad Johnson as well.

You aren't going to see many 1-1 coverage schemes with the Badger and a guy like Julio Jones.... the Badger will be the one providing support to whomever has some of those bigger guys.

 

[SonnyCID]

IF he's good enough, I see him being used like Charles Woodson the past few years in GB, close to the LOS, and let him use his athletic ability on the short field and be a presence on the edge. Woodson was not a great 'cover' guy at that point and it really helped to have some quality outside cover corners, and I think that Arizona has that too. And just like Woodson, he will give up some plays, but keep throwing at him and he'll make some too.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

His athleticism, aggression, ball skills and instincts.

What else is there for a CB?

As for his athleticism, here's his combine numbers. . .

40 yard dash - 4.5
vertical jump - 34.0 inches
broad jump - 9'9
shuttle - 4.14 sec
3-cone - 6.87

His shuttle and 3-cone he finished 10th in this year's combine. Those were the only two events he finished in the top 15.

That's only for 2013. Obviously things are different in pads than shorts and t-shirts, but here's a measure of athleticism in which he is anything but elite.

How often do you run a straight line 40 yards, stand in place and jump vertically, stand still and jump forward as far as you can or scoot sideways and run between stationary cones in a game? Point being, you can't Judge a players total athleticism by his combine results. The combine doesn't account for instinct and although instinct isn't a tangible attribute, it does tie into ones ability to make athletic plays.

To give you some of the local flavor on Mathieu, the Cardinals will use him in nickle and dime packages as a slot cover guy and free safety. To date, the dude has been one of the most dynamic players in camp. He is making big plays in every practice. In his first preseason game, mostly against the Packers 2's, he recorded 1 jarring hit with a pass break up, two special teams tackles, a 24 yard punt return and a sack in limited time. He is considered a ball-hawk and will be used in multiple roles on defense. He is fearless and plays very large for his size. I realize it is too early to give an accurate analysis on him, but all he's done thus far is impress. It will be nice to see how he does against the Chargers 1's. Call me a homer, but I think this guy an absolute steal in the third. If the Cardinals didn't pick him up, then the Patriots would have snatched him up in the third according the the Pat's organization. If he keeps his nose clean, this guy is going to be special.

 

[imac_21]

How often do you run a straight line 40 yards, stand in place and jump vertically, stand still and jump forward as far as you can or scoot sideways and run between stationary cones in a game? Point being, you can't Judge a players total athleticism by his combine results. The combine doesn't account for instinct and although instinct isn't a tangible attribute, it does tie into ones ability to make athletic plays.

I deleted your second paragraph because I didn't care to read it. I figured you didn't read my entire post, so I wouldn't bother reading yours. I will quote my entire post, and highlight the part where you maybe could have paid a little more attention. **Spoiler Alert** Pay close attention to the last sentence.

Originally Posted by imac_21 View Post
His athleticism, aggression, ball skills and instincts.

What else is there for a CB?

As for his athleticism, here's his combine numbers. . .

40 yard dash - 4.5
vertical jump - 34.0 inches
broad jump - 9'9
shuttle - 4.14 sec
3-cone - 6.87

His shuttle and 3-cone he finished 10th in this year's combine. Those were the only two events he finished in the top 15.

That's only for 2013. Obviously things are different in pads than shorts and t-shirts, but here's a measure of athleticism in which he is anything but elite.

Did you catch that last bit? Where I say that shorts and t-shirts aren't an accurate measurement, but is a measurement?

The post wasn't that long. It only takes about 30 seconds to read if you have to sound out some of the longer words. Stretch your attention span.

 

[threelittleturds]

The guy he mostly plays like (Troy Polomalu) isn't that big either... he's just heavier...

While I'm not saying that the Badger is going to be that good, he will be playing the same type of FS that Polomalu does for the Steelers. Todd Bowles will have him in position to make plays... He'll be a Nickel, he'll cover the slot, he'll blitz... He won't be left on two many islands where he has to deal with huge mismatches.

That extra 20 pounds of muscle that Polomalu has is a big difference maker. You shouldn't be so dismissive about it, Polomalu wouldn't be the same player if he was 185 lbs.

 

[CakesW]

That extra 20 pounds of muscle that Polomalu has is a big difference maker. You shouldn't be so dismissive about it, Polomalu wouldn't be the same player if he was 185 lbs.

I'm not really dismissive. It's just that he is going to be used in the same type roll that the Steelers used Polomalu. He's going to be used in the slot, he's going to be used as a nickel and dime CB. He will rarely be used on the outside, they don't need him there. He will in essence be put in the position to do what he does best and that is to be around the football.

He won't be used on run support as much as Troy P. is, that is for sure.. as he's not the bigger safety that Kerry Rhodes used to be, but he does offer much more in terms of versatility as opposed to somebody like Rhodes.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I deleted your second paragraph because I didn't care to read it. I figured you didn't read my entire post, so I wouldn't bother reading yours. I will quote my entire post, and highlight the part where you maybe could have paid a little more attention. **Spoiler Alert** Pay close attention to the last sentence.



Did you catch that last bit? Where I say that shorts and t-shirts aren't an accurate measurement, but is a measurement?

The post wasn't that long. It only takes about 30 seconds to read if you have to sound out some of the longer words. Stretch your attention span.

Go it smart a$$! But when you say "here is a measurement of athleticism in which he is anything but elite" you are implying he is not an elite athlete. If your point was he is not an athletic combine guy, then I get it. However that is a ridiculous point to make considering nobody cares about the combine any more. It's long gone. It's obvious you were downplaying his athleticism to an extent. Don't be so sensitive to how someone responds to your post. It's just a discussion.

 

[JDM]

I am not implying it; I am straight up saying it. He is not an nfl elite athlete.

 

[RobBase]

Dion Sanders said HB can be a starting corner in the NFL from day 1. I loved watching the kid play in college before his unfortunate fall from grace. I'm a big fan of the human spirit, so I'm def rooting for him to turn his life around and become a solid NFL player for a long time.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I am not implying it; I am straight up saying it. He is not an nfl elite athlete.

Thanks for you scouting expertise. If you read my original post, my point wasn't that he is an elite athlete. It was you can't measure ones total athleticism by combine results. Time will tell if he becomes an elite NFL football player.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

 

[imac_21]

Go it smart a$$! But when you say "here is a measurement of athleticism in which he is anything but elite" you are implying he is not an elite athlete. If your point was he is not an athletic combine guy, then I get it. However that is a ridiculous point to make considering nobody cares about the combine any more. It's long gone. It's obvious you were downplaying his athleticism to an extent. Don't be so sensitive to how someone responds to your post. It's just a discussion.

No, when I say "here is a measure of athleticism in which he is anything but elite" I am saying he is not elite in that measure of athleticism.

That being said, I would imagine that anyone with elite athleticism would be able t demonstrate that elite athleticism in shorts and a t-shirt.

Do you believe that Tyrann Mattheiu is an elite athlete by NFL DB standards?

Nobody cares about the combine? I guess they'll be canceling it this year then.

And yes, I was downplaying his athleticism. Someone said he's an elite athlete. You seem to be here arguing that he is. I would love to see your evidence to support that he's an elite NFL athlete.

I'm curious as to whether or not you can make a point or just spew bullshit.

Is "the voice of reason" meant to be ironic?

 

[imac_21]

Thanks for your wonderful contribution to our discussion. Please, keep up the wonderful insights.