Training Camp 2017

[Montalban]

In the big picture these were prudent decisions, i'm certainly ok with it. You build via the draft and that is what they're doing year 1.

"confidence inspiring players" cost a lot of cap, that isn't the way to start a re-build.

When you got 70 Mil in cap space, I think it is.

 

[deep9er]

When you got 70 Mil in cap space, I think it is.

Ok thats fine, your opinion is your opinion.

Article after article says you don't build via Free Agency. If our draftS pan out as we hope, this $70m will be eaten up sooner than you think. BUT, it will be eaten up on our own players, players who'll prove worthy in these current schemes. We have to look ahead where we still lack a franchise QB and LEO. THESE guys alone will eat up cap space. Then next year we'll need a good, healthy FS, CB, LT, WR, etc. etc.

I like the fact we didn't spend in March, just to spend. Tying up all our cap space for two more wins in 2017, doesn't make sense.

 

[Ricky Roma]

It's a mixture of both. Sure you've got to hit on the draft, build your core guys with youth, but it's always a great thing to spend some money and get some veteran leadership to help teach the young guys - both in how the NFL operates and if the team is now implementing a new system. That's precisely why guys like Pierre Garcon, Elvis Dumervil, Malcolm Smith, etc. were brought aboard.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Philadelphia tried doing that years ago, They brought in a bunch of high price free agents. Some people were calling them the dream team and predicting success. That team ended up floundering.

 

[Montalban]

Ok thats fine, your opinion is your opinion.

Article after article says you don't build via Free Agency. If our draftS pan out as we hope, this $70m will be eaten up sooner than you think. BUT, it will be eaten up on our own players, players who'll prove worthy in these current schemes. We have to look ahead where we still lack a franchise QB and LEO. THESE guys alone will eat up cap space. Then next year we'll need a good, healthy FS, CB, LT, WR, etc. etc.

I like the fact we didn't spend in March, just to spend. Tying up all our cap space for two more wins in 2017, doesn't make sense.

Lots of teams do. Green Bay comes to mind in the Reggie White era. The 49ers had a long tradition of it throughout their 18-year run with Montana and Young. The list goes on and on.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Philadelphia tried doing that years ago, They brought in a bunch of high price free agents. Some people were calling them the dream team and predicting success. That team ended up floundering.

Totally different scenarios. The Eagles were coming off multiple playoff seasons and had a top 5 offense or something like that, and added pieces that they believed would take them over the top. It failed. SF is nowhere close to what those Eagles were, and simply added veteran guys who have been tied to Shanahan or have a certain knowledge of the newly-implemented schemes.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Lots of teams do. Green Bay comes to mind in the Reggie White era. The 49ers had a long tradition of it throughout their 18-year run with Montana and Young. The list goes on and on.

Green Bay is known for not spending in free agency and that was just one player. Green Bay was not in midst of rebuilding their franchise. Montana and Young was before 1990 which was the pre free agency and salary cap era. And Young was a very unique situation which would not happen today. The 49ers did sign a number of free agents in 1994 to help win a title but that team was also a contender before the signings and had most pieces in place. They also mortgaged the future with some of those signings which was understandable given where the team was. This team is in a rebuilding mode and it doesn't make sense and it is much less likely to work

 

[Pattersonca65]

Totally different scenarios. The Eagles were coming off multiple playoff seasons and had a top 5 offense or something like that, and added pieces that they believed would take them over the top. It failed. SF is nowhere close to what those Eagles were, and simply added veteran guys who have been tied to Shanahan or have a certain knowledge of the newly-implemented schemes.

I understand that. But even in Philadephia's case it failed.

 

[Ricky Roma]

I understand that. But even in Philadephia's case it failed.

Philly's case is irrelevant. They were in a 'win now' mode whereas the 49ers are building for the future. Hopefully SF will be more than competitive in a few years, and by then, most of the guys that were signed as FA's will be gone. They are here more as vets for their leadership and knowledge...not to put us over the top.

 

[Montalban]

Green Bay is known for not spending in free agency and that was just one player. Green Bay was not in midst of rebuilding their franchise. Montana and Young was before 1990 which was the pre free agency and salary cap era. And Young was a very unique situation which would not happen today. The 49ers did sign a number of free agents in 1994 to help win a title but that team was also a contender before the signings and had most pieces in place. They also mortgaged the future with some of those signings which was understandable given where the team was. This team is in a rebuilding mode and it doesn't make sense and it is much less likely to work

The whole thing started with the 49ers by bringing in free agents like Hacksaw Reynolds, Fred Dean, Fred Solomon and Russ Francis and then have you heard of Steve Young, Ken Norton Jr and Deion Sanders? Without them there was no dynasty to build on. And they certainly went hard after Reggie White even though they missed out.
You've got to bring in solid veteran leadership when trying to re-build; especially with a team as far gone as the 49ers.

 

[Pattersonca65]

The whole thing started with the 49ers by bringing in free agents like Hacksaw Reynolds, Fred Dean, Fred Solomon and Russ Francis and then have you heard of Steve Young, Ken Norton Jr and Deion Sanders? Without them there was no dynasty to build on. And they certainly went hard after Reggie White even though they missed out.
You've got to bring in solid veteran leadership when trying to re-build; especially with a team as far gone as the 49ers.

Reynolds, Dean, Solomon were not Free Agents. Free agency did not exist then as we know it today. Dean was in a contract dispute with the Chargers. Today he would have been free to sign with anyone he wanted to.

Steve Young was not a free agent. He belonged to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Tampa was going nowhere so they decided to trade Young. Young had made a verbal agreement with the owner to have a say in where to go. The owner turned down a better trade offer to honor Young's request.

Yes, Ken Norton Jr and Deion Sanders were free agents the 49ers signed them to help them win a title. But they were not pieces to build a dynasty. The 49ers were already considered one of top teams in the NFL before they acquired those players. The 49ers already had Steve Young, Jerry Rice, and solid core of players. The 49ers mortgaged the future during that 1994 period which was okay given where that team was. But this team is in a rebuilding mode. It does not yet have that established core of players as those other teams did. You build through the draft first. To throw heaps of money at a bunch of high priced free agents given where the 49ers are now makes no sense.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Philly's case is irrelevant. They were in a 'win now' mode whereas the 49ers are building for the future. Hopefully SF will be more than competitive in a few years, and by then, most of the guys that were signed as FA's will be gone. They are here more as vets for their leadership and knowledge...not to put us over the top.

I get the Philly situation is different and I wasn't saying 49ers and Philly were in the same situation. Only saying Philly spent big in free agency and it didn't work. I agree with you about the 49ers free agency signings this year and why these particular players were brought in.

 

[deep9er]

It's a mixture of both. Sure you've got to hit on the draft, build your core guys with youth, but it's always a great thing to spend some money and get some veteran leadership to help teach the young guys - both in how the NFL operates and if the team is now implementing a new system. That's precisely why guys like Pierre Garcon, Elvis Dumervil, Malcolm Smith, etc. were brought aboard.

Yeah, we DID sign FA's, prudent ones IMO. But i'm not the one who's still dissatisfied, i think having all this cap space NOW is great. It is something you need to SUSTAIN your built team.

 

[deep9er]

Yes, the 49er's were already a good team during the 90's. Signing big names was to sustain the good team, not build it.

In our current situation, you can't build without 2-3 consecutively good drafts. Then similar to the 90's, you THEN add bigger FA's to fill the last few gaps. You might also continue signing bigger FA's to sustain your built team...like the 90's.

I'm not against signing bigger FA's, but against signing them now. The timing needs to be right.

You have to have the good drafts first, but followed immediately by cap space. If you burn the cap space too fast, then you can't maneuver when you REALLY need it. For us, we'll need it starting next off-season, extending the best players.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Yeah, we DID sign FA's, prudent ones IMO. But i'm not the one who's still dissatisfied, i think having all this cap space NOW is great. It is something you need to SUSTAIN your built team.

I agree.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Yes, the 49er's were already a good team during the 90's. Signing big names was to sustain the good team, not build it.

In our current situation, you can't build without 2-3 consecutively good drafts. Then similar to the 90's, you THEN add bigger FA's to fill the last few gaps. You might also continue signing bigger FA's to sustain your built team...like the 90's.

I'm not against signing bigger FA's, but against signing them now. The timing needs to be right.

You have to have the good drafts first, but followed immediately by cap space. If you burn the cap space too fast, then you can't maneuver when you REALLY need it. For us, we'll need it starting next off-season, extending the best players.

When we made those signings prior to the 1994 season, we were a top team just trying to get over the hump with Dallas that was a dominant team. Deion Sanders signed an incentive below market contract to win a title. He would not have come cheap to a rebuilding 2-14 team. None of the players that came over Norton, Plummer, etc would have been as eager to come to this year's team and we would probably have to overypay all of them to get them here.

 

[Montalban]

Reynolds, Dean, Solomon were not Free Agents. Free agency did not exist then as we know it today. Dean was in a contract dispute with the Chargers. Today he would have been free to sign with anyone he wanted to.

Steve Young was not a free agent. He belonged to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Tampa was going nowhere so they decided to trade Young. Young had made a verbal agreement with the owner to have a say in where to go. The owner turned down a better trade offer to honor Young's request.

Yes, Ken Norton Jr and Deion Sanders were free agents the 49ers signed them to help them win a title. But they were not pieces to build a dynasty. The 49ers were already considered one of top teams in the NFL before they acquired those players. The 49ers already had Steve Young, Jerry Rice, and solid core of players. The 49ers mortgaged the future during that 1994 period which was okay given where that team was. But this team is in a rebuilding mode. It does not yet have that established core of players as those other teams did. You build through the draft first. To throw heaps of money at a bunch of high priced free agents given where the 49ers are now makes no sense.

Doesn't matter. It was the same process. You brought in valuable impact players with veteran presence to build your team that was filled with youngsters. They may call it a different name but you know as well as I do that it is the same end game.
It is a tried and true process which the 49ers should follow but they are more interested in lining their pockets than fielding a winning team.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Doesn't matter. It was the same process. You brought in valuable impact players with veteran presence to build your team that was filled with youngsters. They may call it a different name but you know as well as I do that it is the same end game.
It is a tried and true process which the 49ers should follow but they are more interested in lining their pockets than fielding a winning team.

It wasn't the same process and it was a different era. The game has changed since the salary cap and free agent era. Look at the some of the other successful teams in this era and they did not start a rebuilding process by bring in high priced free agents. If money was so important Tomsula or Chip Kelly would still be coaching the team.

 

[RobertPhD01]

Blount and Deshone Jackson come to mind, will to wait and see how they do..

 

[Ricky Roma]

Doesn't matter. It was the same process. You brought in valuable impact players with veteran presence to build your team that was filled with youngsters. They may call it a different name but you know as well as I do that it is the same end game.

Agree in general. It's a different way to go about it, but the logic is the same...bring in leadership type of guys to mentor the younger players on the field.

It is a tried and true process which the 49ers should follow but they are more interested in lining their pockets than fielding a winning team.

Disagree with that. SF DID spend money on free agents this past offseason and rewarded both Lynch and Shanahan unprecedented 6 year contracts.