Training Camp '12

[FourBeeDen]

Wassup Four! I could not agree more with your point - well stated! I admit I don't know this author's work very well but if he is doing drive-bys, as you mention, then yes, he likely deserves the moniker of 'hater'

Hey Bem, Not familiar with him either but read the first comment and saw that he has been away and suddenly appeared when the 49ers/ A Smith had a poor outing..

 

[Jikkle]

The writer in question Jeff Kaplan is a Cohn and a Chicken Little when it comes to writing. It's all pure reactionary and based on emotion writing.

Just look back on his articles and you'll see him blast Baalke for failing in the draft last year, blast Baalke for failing in free agency last year and begrudgingly give him some credit when FA wasn't as bad as it seemed, whine about Harbaugh's offense after week 1 last season, and etc.

 

[Bemular]

That play to VD is exactly what we want to see so there was no reason for Smith to wait around and see if there was a bigger play brewing. He saw VD singled covered by an LB with no shot to keep up with him and he hit it. We'll take that play all day if it's open like that.

Like I said in the other thread if Smith dumped it off to the RB or made another safe throw I could see being critical of him and roasting him for missing on a bigger play but that particularly play wasn't a miss on Smith's part.

I completely agree with this idea with one caveat. At some point we need to justify keeping the FS deep. Someone a few days ago mentioned how Ginn wasn't a deep threat due to his inability to make a play deep.

Accepting there is some truth to that sentiment, there is also another side to that point of view and that is Smith demonstrating he will throw the deep ball.

All it will take is for Smith & Co. to put that all too familiar "oh shit" look in the eyes of a few FS's who were squeezing the underneath and we will have just increased the size of our playing field by 10+ yards

 

[Bemular]

Hey Bem, Not familiar with him either but read the first comment and saw that he has been away and suddenly appeared when the 49ers/ A Smith had a poor outing..

I completely missed that - Thanks for pointing that out, Four. (And now the article is gone or something, but I can't bring it up???) - Hmmm, peculiar

 

[Bemular]

The writer in question Jeff Kaplan is a Cohn and a Chicken Little when it comes to writing. It's all pure reactionary and based on emotion writing.

Just look back on his articles and you'll see him blast Baalke for failing in the draft last year, blast Baalke for failing in free agency last year and begrudgingly give him some credit when FA wasn't as bad as it seemed, whine about Harbaugh's offense after week 1 last season, and etc.

A Cohn and a Chicken Little - That's funny! (And not good either!)

 

[deep9er]

I completely agree with this idea with one caveat. At some point we need to justify keeping the FS deep. Someone a few days ago mentioned how Ginn wasn't a deep threat due to his inability to make a play deep.

Accepting there is some truth to that sentiment, there is also another side to that point of view and that is Smith demonstrating he will throw the deep ball.

All it will take is for Smith & Co. to put that all too familiar "oh shit" look in the eyes of a few FS's who were squeezing the underneath and we will have just increased the size of our playing field by 10+ yards

agreed, we have to throw it downfield, granted everyone has their own idea of how many times? then there are game conditions to consider?

this reminded me of Walsh and the early 80's, he said basically once each half......basically. everyone knew the WCO is dink and dunk, so Walsh had to call the long ball to loosen things up. whether Montana had a strong arm (he didn't really) or if his WR were speed burners (Clark and Soloman weren't), he called it.

[Jerry Rice didn't join Montana till '86]

 

[Bemular]

agreed, we have to throw it downfield, granted everyone has their own idea of how many times? then there are game conditions to consider?

this reminded me of Walsh and the early 80's, he said basically once each half......basically. everyone knew the WCO is dink and dunk, so Walsh had to call the long ball to loosen things up. whether Montana had a strong arm (he didn't really) or if his WR were speed burners (Clark and Soloman weren't), he called it.

[Jerry Rice didn't join Montana till '86]

I think this is an accurate way to look at it our offense as well - As kind of a Walsh/Harbaugh hybrid that will control and dictate but can and will burn you deep if you squeeze the underneath game too much.

The one thing Walsh had were WR's that knew how to stem their routes and a QB that could throw very accurately in the 25-40 yard range. I think we have the WR's so the only unanswered question is do we have the QB?

 

[Jikkle]

I think this is an accurate way to look at it our offense as well - As kind of a Walsh/Harbaugh hybrid that will control and dictate but can and will burn you deep if you squeeze the underneath game too much.

The one thing Walsh had were WR's that knew how to stem their routes and a QB that could throw very accurately in the 25-40 yard range. I think we have the WR's so the only unanswered question is do we have the QB?

He's never been great at that range but he's not Shaun Hill at that range either. So I don't think he'll make a living off of it but I think he can hit that range especially if the reports of him throwing the ball better are accurate.

I agree that better WR's will help as well because a number of times last season I thought that we had the least dynamic playmaking WR in the league. It seemed like unless Smith put it exactly on the money they weren't making the catch.

 

[MHSL82]

The problem with Alex Lovers, such as yourself, is your opinions are often these faith filled, emotional charges that either, A) exaggerate much of what Alex has ever done, or B) remove critical and historical context from what he has done.

I am not a total Alex Lover because I don't exaggerate what Alex has done nor remove critical or historical context from what he has done. Some people skip over what I say and make assumptions. I don't always explain myself well. I am a supporter and I do give him the benefit of the doubt as to making future predictions.

My "emotional" charges are typically to those who are inobjective in their criticisms, not to realistically based, objective posters such as yourself. We've argued over things but rarely is it about me saying Alex is better than he is. I've typically defended him on those saying he "never" will do this or that or "always" does this or that. I never say he will, I am optimistic but not blind. It was more on the ESPN Board than on here.

I've never compared him to a great, never said he has physical talents that he does not have, never equated his hard work or smarts to superiority over other similar QBs (or those higher, of course). You've corrected me when I've said we won't throw deep in pre-season because we have Smith as our QB. I've blamed him before for decisions, bad throws, etc. I do have relative faith in him, but not to be Rodgers, Brees, or Brady. I support him but am a Niner fan first.

You may disagree on what I've said, but believe it or not, I know my beliefs more than you do, no matter how you or anyone else paints it. I respectfully ask you to let this be, as I hate our arguments. I admit I am biased and you are more objective, but I do temper my excitement and do so enough not to be an Alex lover.

 

[deep9er]

I think this is an accurate way to look at it our offense as well - As kind of a Walsh/Harbaugh hybrid that will control and dictate but can and will burn you deep if you squeeze the underneath game too much.

The one thing Walsh had were WR's that knew how to stem their routes and a QB that could throw very accurately in the 25-40 yard range. I think we have the WR's so the only unanswered question is do we have the QB?

yep, Montana was no doubt accurate but he also threw with timing. so it SEEMED like his receivers didn't need a lot of separation? until Rice came along, we didn't seem to have SPEED (football speed) at WR? Walsh did try to add Nehemiah.

Alex Smith seems to be getting more comfortable and this should lead to more accuracy AND timing? a little bit of both would be good, not expecting him to become a 'Montana' by any means.

 

[Bemular]

He's never been great at that range but he's not Shaun Hill at that range either. So I don't think he'll make a living off of it but I think he can hit that range especially if the reports of him throwing the ball better are accurate.

I agree that better WR's will help as well because a number of times last season I thought that we had the least dynamic playmaking WR in the league. It seemed like unless Smith put it exactly on the money they weren't making the catch.

I think this is accurate. There were times when he did put it on the money and the receiver either dropped it (Davis vs. Wash; Davis vs. StL) or unconscionably stepped oob (Davis vs. Sea) But then there were the OMG Williams type misses vs. NYG that might have had all of us singing a different tune about Kyle in the off-season.

So, he now has what seems like 3, 4 or even 5 receivers that can get behind defenders he just needs to be more consistent in his accuracy and the receivers need to be more consistent with their catches and we could easily see our passing offense jump 15-20 ranking pts for Yds & TD's this year.

 

[Bemular]

yep, Montana was no doubt accurate but he also threw with timing. so it SEEMED like his receivers didn't need a lot of separation? until Rice came along, we didn't seem to have SPEED (football speed) at WR? Walsh did try to add Nehemiah.

Alex Smith seems to be getting more comfortable and this should lead to more accuracy AND timing? a little bit of both would be good, not expecting him to become a 'Montana' by any means.

If I understand the distinction you are making between accuracy and timing, that of being "in the strike zone" vs. being "in the strike zone and in stride" then yes I hope that is an improvement we all get to see in Smith's game this year.

I agree Solomon was no Rice but he could get behind defenders and was a legitimate deep threat - Clark on the other hand was just flat nasty on his routes. He could read & stem as good as any WR I've ever seen. And I hear he had a fairly decent vertical as well

 

[MHSL82]

Sorry, Bem. My bad. I realized I listed only three options (Lover, hater, neutral). Under that, yes, I'm an Alex Lover. I didn't add "Alex supporter" to the list, which is somewhere between neutral and lover. I also realize you said, "often" - not like every time. You were also speaking as to other people not just me. So I try to be more objective, despite my biases, but out of those three options, I am in that category. My fault.

Thanks for not jumping on my post.

 

[deep9er]

If I understand the distinction you are making between accuracy and timing, that of being "in the strike zone" vs. being "in the strike zone and in stride" then yes I hope that is an improvement we all get to see in Smith's game this year.

I agree Solomon was no Rice but he could get behind defenders and was a legitimate deep threat - Clark on the other hand was just flat nasty on his routes. He could read & stem as good as any WR I've ever seen. And I hear he had a fairly decent vertical as well

yes, "in stride" or right when the receivers break if you will.

Clark could jump.....really??? haaaa

 

[Bemular]

Sorry, Bem. My bad. I realized I listed only three options (Lover, hater, neutral). Under that, yes, I'm an Alex Lover. I didn't add "Alex supporter" to the list, which is somewhere between neutral and lover. I also realize you said, "often" - not like every time. You were also speaking as to other people not just me. So I try to be more objective, despite my biases, but out of those three options, I am in that category. My fault.

Thanks for not jumping on my post.

Actually, you did use those terms (Supporters, Haters and Neutrals) so you're fine. My original response was tilted more because of my aversion toward the use of the word "hater", than anything you said.

I equate the word "hater" to the word "racist" in that both words are used too often and just as often both are used incorrectly.

To me, an Alex hater is someone who wants Alex to fail regardless of the consequence to the team just for the sake of being correct about their ongoing dissention and desire to get rid of Smith. I don't think we have any of those here.

As for your response, I thought your response was awesome. No way was I going to disrespect your request to let it be.

 

[Bemular]

yes, "in stride" or right when the receivers break if you will.

Clark could jump.....really??? haaaa

I know right! And I heard it said once that White Men Can't Jump - Whatup with that!?! lol!

 

[MHSL82]

Actually, you did use those terms (Supporters, Haters and Neutrals) so you're fine. My original response was tilted more because of my aversion toward the use of the word "hater", than anything you said.

I equate the word "hater" to the word "racist" in that both words are used too often and just as often both are used incorrectly.

To me, an Alex hater is someone who wants Alex to fail regardless of the consequence to the team just for the sake of being correct about their ongoing dissention and desire to get rid of Smith. I don't think we have any of those here.

As for your response, I thought your response was awesome. No way was I going to disrespect your request to let it be.

Guilty. I was lazy with my use of the word 'hater'. Will refrain using it in the future because I, too, think 'racist' is thrown about too loosely so I can understand the aversion (analogy-wise).

 

[Bemular]

Guilty. I was lazy with my use of the word 'hater'. Will refrain using it in the future because I, too, think 'racist' is thrown about too loosely so I can understand the aversion (analogy-wise).

Cheers!

 

[clyde_carbon]

Fucking kiddingg me. Are people still using the term "Alex hater"? This isn't ESPN boards circa 2010, buddy.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I think this is accurate. There were times when he did put it on the money and the receiver either dropped it (Davis vs. Wash; Davis vs. StL) or unconscionably stepped oob (Davis vs. Sea) But then there were the OMG Williams type misses vs. NYG that might have had all of us singing a different tune about Kyle in the off-season.

So, he now has what seems like 3, 4 or even 5 receivers that can get behind defenders he just needs to be more consistent in his accuracy and the receivers need to be more consistent with their catches and we could easily see our passing offense jump 15-20 ranking pts for Yds & TD's this year.

the line has to block, smith has to make the read and hit the wr, the wr has to catch.

it's like a series of coin flips squared to get a completion sometimes