Top 32 tournament SS Wagner vs Rodriguez

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

Shortstop Bracket is:

1 H Wagner 8
32 N Garciaparra 0

16 PW Reese 3
17 L Boudreau 6

8 B Dahlen 8
25 A Fletcher 1

9 L Appling 8
24 D Bancroft 0

4 G Davis 6 advances on seed
29 O Vizquel 6

13 B Larkin 7
20 J Sewell 0

5 R Yount 8
28 V Stephens 4

12 A Trammell 14
21 J Tinker 0

3 C Ripken JR 8
30 T Fernandez 2

14 E Banks 10
19 L Aparicio 0

6 O Smith 16
27 J Rollins 1

11 D Jeter 12
22 B Campaneris 1

2 A Rodriguez 9
31 R Peckinpaugh 0

15 J Cronin 5
18 J Glasscock 4

7 B Wallace 5
26 M Tejada 6

10 A Vaughan 8
23 J Fregosi 0

1 H Wagner 9
17 L Boudreau 0

8 B Dahlen 1
9 L Appling 7

4 G Davis 2
13 B Larkin 10

5 R Yount 6
12 A Trammell 8

3 C Ripken JR 4
14 E Banks 8

6 O Smith 6
11 D Jeter 7

2 A Rodriguez 11
15 J Cronin 2

26 M Tejada 0
10 A Vaughan 10

1 H Wagner 7
9 L Appling 0

13 B Larkin 7
12 A Trammell 4

14 E Banks 9
11 D Jeter 6

2 A Rodriguez 8
10 A Vaughan 0

1 H Wagner 6
13 B Larkin 1

14 E Banks 3
2 A Rodriguez 6

1 H Wagner
2 A Rodriguez

 

[obxyankeefan]

Honus Wagner Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Nomar Garciaparra, Lou Boudreau, Luke Appling, and Barry Larkin 30-1

Alex Rodriguez Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Roger Peckinpaugh, Joe Cronin, Arky Vaughan, and Ernie Banks 34-5

 

[MilkSpiller22]

BA- Wagner wins(not close)
Wagner-Career=.328, Best=.381,499+PA better=12, MLB average=.268(.06)
AROD-Career=.297, Best=.358, 499+PA better=10, MLB average=.270(.027)

Power-AROD wins(relatively close)
ISO
Wagner-Career=.139, Best=192, 499+PA better=12, MLB average=.083(.059)
AROD-Career=.258, Best=.331, 499+PA better=9, MLB average=.160(.098)

BB-AROD wins- not close
BB%
Wagner-Career=8.2, Best=12, 499+PA better=11, MLB average=7.3(.9)
AROD- Career=11.1, Best=15, 499+PA better=9, MLB average=8.6(2.5

SO-Wagner wins(NOT CLOSE)
SO%
Wagner- Career=6.3, Best=2.9, 499+PA better=10, MLB average=9.4(3.1)
AROD- Career=18.6, Best=15.4, 499+PA better=10, MLB average=17.6(-1)

SB- Wagner wins(but conclusion is incomplete due to not knowing how often Wagner was CS)
Wagner- Career=723,best=61, 20+ SB seasons=19, 20+ seasons with 75% or better=17???
AROD- Career= 326, Best=46, 20+ SB seasons=6, 20+ seasons with 75% or better=6

Defense-dWAR shows Wagner winning- BUT it is too hard to compare defense between these 2 eras... especially when fielding% was so LOW back then...
dWAR-
Wagner-Career=21.3,Best=3, seasons 1 or over=11, seasons over 0=17
AROD- Career=10, Best=2.3, seasons 1 or over=7(5 as SS), seasons over 0=14(8 as SS)

Post season- AROD wins(but Wagner only played 15 games) 5 good series vs 1 good series...

Career longevity- AROD wins(200+ more PA)
positional longevity- Wagner wins(600 more game)
499+PA seasons AROD=17, Wagner=17

Conclusion: this is very difficult... What is certain is that AROD was better at POWER and BB, while Wagner was better at BA and SO... All else is a little incomplete... and when this close it needs to be more complete...

This seems like it is preference... And i think i am more biased against pre integration baseball than i am steroid era, so i will pick AROD...

 

[Cedrique]

There needs to be a utility infielder category. ARod would win that. But I think I don't think I can take ARod for the same reason I went against Banks early. He didn't play enough SS.

 

[calsnowskier]

I hadnt even realized this until now, but I never performed an OPS+ breakdown for Wagner because he clearly won each matchup at just a quick glance. This will be my first breakdown for him...

OPS+ (Rodriguez/Wagner)
120 - 8/13
130 - 7/11
140 - 5/10
150 - 4/9
160 - 3/7
170 - 0/5
180 - 0/3 (187, 188, 205)

Even IRod does not hold a candle to Wagner.

Wow! Not one other player even is in the discussion for best SS to ever play the game. He may just be the greatest player ever BECAUSE of his positional dominance.