Top 32 tournament C Tenace vs Kendall

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

Catcher Bracket is:

1 J Bench 13
32 R Ferrell 1

16 T Munson 6
17 W Schang 0

8 B Dickey 3 Dickey will advance on higher seed
25 R Campanella 3

9 G Harnett 6
24 L Parrish 0

4 C Fisk 10
29 J Clements 0

13 G Tenace
20 J Kendall

5 Y Berra
28 R Martin

12 B Ewing
21 R Bresnahan

3 I Rodriguez
30 D McGuire

14 J Mauer
19 J Posada

6 M Piazza
27 V Martinez

11 T Simmons
22 D Porter

2 G Carter
31 S Lollar

15 E Lombardi
18 B Freehan

7 J Torre
26 S Burgess

10 M Cochrane
23 J Sundberg

1 J Bench
16 T Munson

8 B Dickey
9 G Harnett

4 C Fisk

 

[obxyankeefan]

I am in a hotel and when I get home tonight, I will put the BBREF pages up for these two.

 

[navamind]

ehh. I think Tenace was a better player, but I went with Kendall because of the massive difference in games played at catcher. Kendall was a really good catcher when he came up, very similar to Joe Mauer.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

ehh. I think Tenace was a better player, but I went with Kendall because of the massive difference in games played at catcher. Kendall was a really good catcher when he came up, very similar to Joe Mauer.

I will agree with your reasoning on Kendall over Tenace... I am just not convinced Tenace was the better player... He was only the better power hitter... But that is really the ONLY thing... Kendall had 3000 more PA and had a similar OBP...

But at catcher Kendall is the clear choice since he was a significantly better defender, and he played significantly more games at the catcher position...

 

[navamind]

I will agree with your reasoning on Kendall over Tenace... I am just not convinced Tenace was the better player... He was only the better power hitter... But that is really the ONLY thing... Kendall had 3000 more PA and had a similar OBP...

But at catcher Kendall is the clear choice since he was a significantly better defender, and he played significantly more games at the catcher position...

Thing is, Kendall played the majority of his career in the steroid era, while Tenace played a good chunk of his career in the second deadball era. Two drastically different offensive eras. For Tenace to have a career .388 OBP is pretty remarkable. The league OBP (non-pitchers) for his career was .321. The league OBP during Kendall's was .340, and he had a career OBP of .366.

Also, the league SLG% for Tenace's career was .373. .430 during Kendall's. There's a huge gap between them in OPS+ (136 to 95). Even when you account for career length, it's still a big advantage IMO.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Thing is, Kendall played the majority of his career in the steroid era, while Tenace played a good chunk of his career in the second deadball era. Two drastically different offensive eras. For Tenace to have a career .388 OBP is pretty remarkable. The league OBP (non-pitchers) for his career was .321. The league OBP during Kendall's was .340, and he had a career OBP of .366.

Also, the league SLG% for Tenace's career was .373. .430 during Kendall's. There's a huge gap between them in OPS+ (136 to 95). Even when you account for career length, it's still a big advantage.

But kendall was not a power hitter... How can you penalize a non power hitter for playing in a power era??

 

[obxyankeefan]

Gene Tenace Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

Jason Kendall Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[navamind]

But kendall was not a power hitter... How can you penalize a non power hitter for playing in a power era??

So?

It certainly matters in regards to overall production. So Tenace was a better power hitter and had a much higher career OBP despite playing in a much more difficult environment to hit in.

 

[obxyankeefan]

But kendall was not a power hitter... How can you penalize a non power hitter for playing in a power era??

If NavaMinds number are correct then using the simple formula of OBP+ = OBP/ League OBP * 100
Tenace has a 121
Kendall has a 108

Big difference in OBP as compared to league average.

 

[navamind]

Tenace's neutralized stats:

.260/.411/.459, 1191 hits, 199 doubles, 22 triples, 224 HR, 803 RBI, 781 runs scored in 5854 PA

 

[DragonfromTO]

But kendall was not a power hitter... How can you penalize a non power hitter for playing in a power era??

Well, power is one of the ways that a player creates value for his team. So if he's hitting for power worse than the rest of the league he's putting his team at a disadvantage in that regard. Now he can obviously make up for that in other ways (as Kendall partially did) but it's not like that missing value can just be ignored because it doesn't fit the player's individual skill set.

 

[calsnowskier]

Tentacle was the clearl better hitter. Sorry, I don't see how that is even debatable.

But Tenace only played about 55% of his games at C. That is a pretty massive detraction. Basically, the only question is if you consider Tanace eligible for this tourney to begin with, and I am not sure where I stand on that at this point.

 

[calsnowskier]

Tentacle was the clearl better hitter. Sorry, I don't see how that is even debatable.

But Tenace only played about 55% of his games at C. That is a pretty massive detraction. Basically, the only question is if you consider Tanace eligible for this tourney to begin with, and I am not sure where I stand on that at this point.

Kendell was solid defensively, and he was a catcher. He got my vote...