Top 10 poll: #9 player ever

[Clayton]

Stop it. You’ve never seen a talent like Ohtani on a baseball field before. None of us have. Bonds is the only guy to win MORE MVP’s than Ohtani(and others). I’m betting that he adds another along the way(we know the likes of Schmidt, Musial and Mantle won’t be adding more). Then what?

Campy! Haha.

Except that he hasn't done it yet. He has less than half the WAR of almost all of the players who will go top 20.

 

[chappee11]

As for an NFL poll, not by me. I am just a casual(+) NFL fan.

Montana and Brady played in different eras. Montana had a short career because he broke his back on the field while taking punishment Brady didn’t even have nightmares about. Penalties were called on the defenses playing against Brady that were awarded extra lost yards against Montana by the refs in his day.

Seriously, though, I was on the Brady GOAT train pretty early. He played the game that was put in front of him, and he dominated it for damn near two decades. The NFL Hall of fame should be renamed Brady Hall.

This is all fair. And you are definitely right about the difference in eras. Hell, today’s game makes Brady’s era look punishing. You aren’t even allowed to hit the QB anymore. It’s become a glorified flag football league(one of many reasons I stopped watching). I know how brutal it was when Montana played.

 

[calsnowskier]

With Rickey, I guess the question I have to ask is whether you would want the best base stealer of all time or one of the 5 best catches of all time in their prime? I personally would take the catcher in their prime. Its just that over a career I'd take Rickey. Bench had 13 dominant years. Rickey by my count has 17.

That’s what these convos are for.

As for catchers, I need to start putting Pudge on there at the bottom as well. He isn’t above Bench, but he was arguably the greatest defensive catcher ever, and he needs recognition for that.

 

[Cedrique]

I’m one of the Ohtani voters. I know it’s a little inconsistent to vote for someone who hasn’t had a full dominant career yet but to me he’s that special and different and this isn’t scientific.

I also have been on the NFL boards saying Mahomes is GOAT over Brady. People are telling me it’s too soon but I saw both with my own eyes and Mahomes is better at playing the position so he has my vote.

Ohtani has been amazing so far but I'm not quite ready to put him that high. He certainly could end up a top 10 player but there are still a few obstacles such as
- he must avoid injuries that would slow him down, like Trout
- he must keep a more reputable interpreter
- he must suppress the urge to get his pilot's license until his career is over
- also he can't get drafted

 

[Cedrique]

What better to accumulate than Championship rings? 10 Super Bowl appearances and 7 rings. What more do you want?

I know, I'm just cracking wise

 

[chappee11]

Except that he hasn't done it yet. He has less than half the WAR of almost all of the players who will go top 20.

If this exercise was just about WAR we could just sort by that category in descending order and call it a day. But that’s not what we are doing here.

 

[calsnowskier]

Except that he hasn't done it yet. He has less than half the WAR of almost all of the players who will go top 20.

And a good deal of his war comes from pitching. I 100% agree that ignoring his pitching in WAR is MORE of a statistical inaccuracy, but adding hitting WAR and pitching WAR just creates a garbage number.

 

[msgkings322]

Agree on Ohtani, but disagree with Brady. Brady had the edge over Mahomes when they met head-to-head. I’m just going with that. If Mahomes tops 7 Super Bowl wins, I will reconsider this!

You taking Kelce over Gronk, too?

The fuck? Mahomes does everything Brady did and then can use his legs. He’s the better player. Football is a team sport, Brady didnt beat Mahomes himself. Rings are also team accomplishments unless you think Eli Manning is better than Dan Marino. Eli is also better than Brady by your metric

Haven’t looked at tight ends but Kelce is probably better than Gronk. Gonzalez is GOAT over both

 

[Clayton]

That’s what these convos are for.

As for catchers, I need to start putting Pudge on there at the bottom as well. He isn’t above Bench, but he was arguably the greatest defensive catcher ever, and he needs recognition for that.

Best I can tell he is the best defensive catcher of all time.

Still, I think Bench probably has an argument in the top 20 or so. Before my time but if he was roughly prime Yadier Molina (which was only like 2 years) for 13 years then thats a top 20 player

 

[calsnowskier]

And if you looking at Ohtani the hitter, he is a DH.

i don’t want to get started on THAT topic. The fucking league changed the rules FOR Ohtani specifically. That alone damn near eliminates him from this discussion for me.

 

[msgkings322]

Ohtani has been amazing so far but I'm not quite ready to put him that high. He certainly could end up a top 10 player but there are still a few obstacles such as
- he must avoid injuries that would slow him down, like Trout
- he must keep a more reputable interpreter
- he must suppress the urge to get his pilot's license until his career is over
- also he can't get drafted

Getting drafted didn’t prevent Williams or Mays from being top 5. Ohtani is what he is and I’ll keep nominating him. He won’t be top 10 here anyway but maybe top 15-20

 

[msgkings322]

And if you looking at Ohtani the hitter, he is a DH.

i don’t want to get started on THAT topic. The fucking league changed the rules FOR Ohtani specifically. That alone damn near eliminates him from this discussion for me.

Enhances it for me. They don’t do that for just anyone

 

[calsnowskier]

The fuck? Mahomes does everything Brady did and then can use his legs. He’s the better player. Football is a team sport, Brady didnt beat Mahomes himself. Rings are also team accomplishments unless you think Eli Manning is better than Dan Marino. Eli is also better than Brady by your metric

Haven’t looked at tight ends but Kelce is probably better than Gronk. Gonzalez is GOAT over both

Steve Young, Dan Marino, Payton Manning.

QB is not just a physical position. It IS a field general. It IS a system. Right or wrong, winning is hung on the QB, and no one did that better than Brady.

 

[calsnowskier]

Best I can tell he is the best defensive catcher of all time.

Still, I think Bench probably has an argument in the top 20 or so. Before my time but if he was roughly prime Yadier Molina (which was only like 2 years) for 13 years then thats a top 20 player

Yadi was a poor man’s Pudge. A poor man’s Fisk. And he didn’t even own a bat.

 

[Clayton]

Enhances it for me. They don’t do that for just anyone

What about in the other direction like Bob Gibson?

 

[msgkings322]

Steve Young, Dan Marino, Payton Manning.

QB is not just a physical position. It IS a field general. It IS a system. Right or wrong, winning is hung on the QB, and no one did that better than Brady.

Mahomes plays the position better it’s not complicated. He does everything Brady did plus uses his legs. Bigger deep ball too.

If you had to pick a QB for a game to win to save your family’s lives you have to go with Mahomes.

 

[calsnowskier]

Enhances it for me. They don’t do that for just anyone

Marketing. That is extrabaseball that perverts everything.

 

[msgkings322]

What about in the other direction like Bob Gibson?

Also a top player all time, sure. But Ohtani is a better hitter.

 

[msgkings322]

Marketing. That is extrabaseball that perverts everything.

Who you calling a pervert?!?

 

[calsnowskier]

Mahomes plays the position better it’s not complicated. He does everything Brady did plus uses his legs. Bigger deep ball too.

If you had to pick a QB for a game to win to save your family’s lives you have to go with Mahomes.

With both teams having the same players everywhere else, I probably go with either Marino or Brady.