POLL Top 10 poll: #29 player ever

[DHoey]

I understand the feelings on ARod but why Clemente and not any of the others in the above list?

12 Gold Gloves in a row? Light on power maybe? 3000 hits with a shortened career is pretty impressive. Has an MVP and a World Series

 

[LHG]

12 Gold Gloves in a row? Light on power maybe? 3000 hits with a shortened career is pretty impressive. Has an MVP and a World Series

Have you looked at the other guys I've listed though? Some cannot be talked about defensively because Gold Gloves were not given out yet. Mel Ott had 511 career home runs and was close in hits (2876) with a World Series trophy as well. I mention Mike Trout in the post above. As for the career cut short, I think that is a bit overblown. He was going into his age 38 season. I don't think he would have done much more. You look at his last 4 seasons and his numbers were on a steady decline. Clemente, as I mentioned, has a lot going for him but I don't see how he is better than some of the guys left.

 

[Wamu]

His was a very sad end, especially the fact that he died helping others. A great example.

But he was about to get in his age 38 season had he been alive. What are the chances that his remaining career would have been anything special? The numbers he posted just don't quite compare to some of the other guys that I listed.

For example, compare the counting stats of Clemente to Trout.
Games - Clemente - 2433; Trout - 1518
Plate appearances - Clemente - 10,212; Trout - 6,647
Runs Scored- Clemente - 1416; Trout - 1123
Doubles - Clemente - 440; Trout - 311
Triples - Clemente - 166; Trout - 54
Home Runs - Clemente - 240; Trout - 378
RBIs - Clemente - 1305; Trout - 954
Walks - Clemente - 621; Trout - 980
Strikeouts - Clemente - 1230; Trout - 1485
Batting average - Clemente - .317; Trout - .299
On base percentage - Clemente - .359; Trout - .410
Slugging percentage - Clemente - .374; Trout - .581

About the only thing that Clemente has on Trout is fewer strikeouts and more triples. Trout's per year averages on these almost all are better than Clemente's, and Trout has another 5 seasons to get the same age as Clemente was in his last season. Now I know that we don't use what ifs to measure what active players will look like at the end of their careers so I'm trying to see Trout will or will not do more in future seasons. What I am saying is that Trout is doing better than Clemente did, within the same time frame. I'm not trying to say Clemente doesn't belong in the conversation (I have him just below Yastrzemski), just saying that I think there are others still to be considered before him.

That's some good info.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Because the sum can be greater than 1? It seems to make sense to me but maybe I'm not as advanced in numbers as you.

I’m not a good explainer. I found a website. Maybe read it if you want to understand why many don’t like OPS.

Let's not use OPS any more!

A quick review of why OPS isn't the best way to judge a player's overall offensive ability.

www.beyondtheboxscore.com

 

[LHG]

I’m not a good explainer. I found a website. Maybe read it if you want to understand why many don’t like OPS.

Let's not use OPS any more!

A quick review of why OPS isn't the best way to judge a player's overall offensive ability.

www.beyondtheboxscore.com

Will read when I have time, thank you.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Will read when I have time, thank you.

Not sure if that was the best site. Just the first I found. And I am on my phone.

 

[chappee11]

As this exercise winds down, I am surprised to see how Ohtani’s support has dwindled as time has gone on. He deserved better.

 

[calsnowskier]

As this exercise winds down, I am surprised to see how Ohtani’s support has dwindled as time has gone on. He deserved better.

His inclusion would be almost entirely based on what he might do in the future, not what he has done already.

 

[calsnowskier]

For what it’s worth (not much at all), I asked Meta AI who the #29 player in MLB history is, and it responded with George Brett.

 

[chappee11]

His inclusion would be almost entirely based on what he might do in the future, not what he has done already.

Strong disagree since he’s already won 3 MVPs. How many others have won 3, or more?

Bonds-7
Trout-3
Ohtani-3
ARod-3
Pujols-3
Schmidt-3
Mantle-3
Berra-3
Campanella-3
Musial-3
DiMaggio-3
Foxx-3

That’s it. That’s the whole list. Only Ohtani can climb this list, though.

 

[broncosmitty]

12 Gold Gloves in a row? Light on power maybe? 3000 hits with a shortened career is pretty impressive. Has an MVP and a World Series

Clemente was 38 when he died.

Career wasn’t shortened by much. But it definitely added to his legendary status.

 

[LHG]

For what it’s worth (not much at all), I asked Meta AI who the #29 player in MLB history is, and it responded with George Brett.

What does AI know?

 

[chappee11]

For what it’s worth (not much at all), I asked Meta AI who the #29 player in MLB history is, and it responded with George Brett.

ChatGPT says Tony Gwynn.
Perplexity says Johnny Bench.

I’m with Perplexity.

 

[DHoey]

Clemente was 38 when he died.

Career wasn’t shortened by much. But it definitely added to his legendary status.

Sure. And look at his numbers his last 5 years. Whoever said he was declining, I don’t know about that. I would guess he would have ended akin to the afore mentioned Tony Gwynn or George Brett. But who knows. Maybe we could have called him the greatest defensive outfielder of all time?

 

[calsnowskier]

That’s it. That’s the whole list. Only Ohtani can climb this list, though.

Exactly

 

[msgkings322]

Strong disagree since he’s already won 3 MVPs. How many others have won 3, or more?

Bonds-7
Trout-3
Ohtani-3
ARod-3
Pujols-3
Schmidt-3
Mantle-3
Berra-3
Campanella-3
Musial-3
DiMaggio-3
Foxx-3

That’s it. That’s the whole list. Only Ohtani can climb this list, though.

It's wild how so many 3s, no 4-6, then Bonds lol

 

[msgkings322]

As this exercise winds down, I am surprised to see how Ohtani’s support has dwindled as time has gone on. He deserved better.

I'm the OG Ohtani stan, voted for him every round but stopped recently because the point was made and he just wasn't going to get there. Just the eye test I see it, the dual threat of course also, and I have no doubt he will be a top 30 player and in some ways already is (your MVP argument is a good one)

 

[msgkings322]

Strong disagree since he’s already won 3 MVPs. How many others have won 3, or more?

Bonds-7
Trout-3
Ohtani-3
ARod-3
Pujols-3
Schmidt-3
Mantle-3
Berra-3
Campanella-3
Musial-3
DiMaggio-3
Foxx-3

That’s it. That’s the whole list. Only Ohtani can climb this list, though.

This also tells me we should be looking at Campanella?

 

[msgkings322]

Clemente was 38 when he died.

Career wasn’t shortened by much. But it definitely added to his legendary status.

Yeah I think Gehrig gets a bump for that too but his numbers were pretty legit and worthy of #7

 

[msgkings322]

What does AI know?