Top 10 poll: #10 player ever

[calsnowskier]

Let me just float this idea and get a few opinions…

Should I change the scope of this to only look at RETIRED players?

No active players have made it to the actual voting stage yet, so a change like this shouldnt bastardize the results thus far.

 

[calsnowskier]

May have the opposite impact. There is a lot of talk about Stan Musial in these threads lately, putting a lot of eyes on his career. I do think Hornsby (or Young) should get this spot but Musial is getting a lot of helium.

Attention certainly causes candidates to rise. And while I don’t think Musial should be a REAL contender just yet, there have been strong arguments for him that lead me to understand the pro-Musial stance.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Let me just float this idea and get a few opinions…

Should I change the scope of this to only look at RETIRED players?

No active players have made it to the actual voting stage yet, so a change like this shouldnt bastardize the results thus far.

nah... some current players are in their back end of their career and can be seriously considered... like trout... not here... but maybe soon...

the only real difficult ones are Ohtani, Judge and even Betts( our WAR darling)

Ohtani, even if he had a full career fullfilling a typical projectory of his career, will always be impossible to measure... as he will always be a unicorn... similar to Rickey Henderson...

I think Judge is the only current player where his potential career flow can be compared with the all time greats...

 

[calsnowskier]

nah... some current players are in their back end of their career and can be seriously considered... like trout... not here... but maybe soon...

the only real difficult ones are Ohtani, Judge and even Betts( our WAR darling)

Ohtani, even if he had a full career fullfilling a typical projectory of his career, will always be impossible to measure... as he will always be a unicorn... similar to Rickey Henderson...

I think Judge is the only current player where his potential career flow can be compared with the all time greats...

Judge is already 32. no way will his body last long enough to seriously be in these conversations, imho. I really don’t think his WAR7 will be high enough. I don’t see him having more than 1, MAYBE 2 more ELITE seasons.

It is possible he lasts longer. Winfield and Thomas both had long dominant careers. But they are really the only ones (Randy is a pitcher and different kind of giant).

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Judge is already 32. no way will his body last long enough to seriously be in these conversations, imho. I really don’t think his WAR7 will be high enough. I don’t see him having more than 1, MAYBE 2 more ELITE seasons.

It is possible he lasts longer. Winfield and Thomas both had long dominant careers. But they are really the only ones (Randy is a pitcher and different kind of giant).

but depending on the level of eliteness of those 2 more, he would have to be up there... the MAGNITUDE of judge's top 2 season are only bettered on this list by Ruth and Bonds... oh yea.. and also mickey...

and again, you might not like the DH... but the DH will extend careers...

 

[Clayton]

but depending on the level of eliteness of those 2 more, he would have to be up there... the MAGNITUDE of judge's top 2 season are only bettered on this list by Ruth and Bonds...

and again, you might not like the DH... but the DH will extend careers...

I think Judge's seasons will be remembered but I do think he either needs 3 more good seasons or one more legendary season to really get into a 'greats' conversation imo.

Im sure if you have a 'how many players are you taking over 2024 Judge?' conversation and its probably a small list.

 

[calsnowskier]

Judges WAR7 is 51.4. His bottom 2 seasons in that are 4.5 and 5.6. He only has 2 seasons of 10+ WAR. If he were to have 2 more seasons of 10 WAR (unlikely, imho), that would only give him an additional 10 in his WAR7 (61.4). So he has a slight POTENTIAL of getting into the lower end of the group we are currently looking at.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Judges WAR7 is 51.4. His bottom 2 seasons in that are 4.5 and 5.6. He only has 2 seasons of 10+ WAR. If he were to have 2 more seasons of 10 WAR (unlikely, imho), that would only give him an additional 10 in his WAR7 (61.4). So he has a slight POTENTIAL of getting into the lower end of the group we are currently looking at.

did i say anything less?? never said he would be as good as Bonds/Mays/Ruth

all i said, is that he is the only current player that is on pace to be compared to become an all time great...

Ohtani, will never be comparable because he is a unicorn... similar to Rickey Henderson... but his unicorn status, is why i would already put him as a top 10... but he is just impossible to measure...

 

[calsnowskier]

Trout is already at 65.0 WAR7 while also being 32. He is already sitting in the zone for discussion of the players we are contemplating now. His bottom 2 season in his WAR7 are 7.7 and 7.9, so it will be much more difficult for him to improve on that, though. He has not improved his WAR7 since ‘19.

Of the 3 main current players, I would rate them Ohtani, Trout, Judge, with only Ohtani having a real chance to be one of the elite elite of the elite.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Trout is already at 65.0 WAR7 while also being 32. He is already sitting in the zone for discussion of the players we are contemplating now. His bottom 2 season in his WAR7 are 7.7 and 7.9, so it will be much more difficult for him to improve on that, though. He has not improved his WAR7 since ‘19.

Of the 3 main current players, I would rate them Ohtani, Trout, Judge, with only Ohtani having a real chance to be one of the elite elite of the elite.

trout over Judge only because of longevity IMO... but i am also not as big on WAR as you.... especially with positional weights...

and i did not include Trout because we know what he is... if he is not top 10 yet... he wont be...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

but it is werid to see that trout and Judge are basically the same age...

is it possible for trout to have a resurgence to his career??

 

[calsnowskier]

trout over Judge only because of longevity IMO... but i am also not as big on WAR as you.... especially with positional weights...

and i did not include Trout because we know what he is... if he is not top 10 yet... he wont be...

Trout has a strong WAR7, but his career WAR doesn’t compete with others. And the image (right or wrong) about his not caring about winning hurts his “story”.

 

[calsnowskier]

but it is werid to see that trout and Judge are basically the same age...

is it possible for trout to have a resurgence to his career??

Anything is possible. I just wonder if he cares enough to make it happen. The fact that he hasn’t improved his WAR7 since ‘19 really shocked me. Really sad.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Anything is possible. I just wonder if he cares enough to make it happen. The fact that he hasn’t improved his WAR7 since ‘19 really shocked me. Really sad.

what if he goes to the dodgers??

 

[calsnowskier]

what if he goes to the dodgers??

But he hasnt appeared to ever have an issue with staying with a horribly run franchise that has no clue how to win. I have a hard time contemplating totally made up fantasy scenarios.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

But he hasnt appeared to ever have an issue with staying with a horribly run franchise that has no clue how to win. I have a hard time contemplating totally made up fantasy scenarios.

no... i agree... he has played on 3 playoff games in his career... that is pretty embarassing for a player of the caliber...

 

[calsnowskier]

He seems to be an introvert who doesn’t like the spotlight. More power to him. I totally respect that he is happy playing for an under the radar team, just doing what he loves to do (I assume he loves the game, I have never heard one way or the other, tbh). I don’t fault HIM for that.

But that will still affect his legend, regardless. Rickey is extra loved because of the love he had for the game. He showed that love of the game every time he stepped on the field. Trout doesn’t broadcast that same emotion.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

He seems to be an introvert who doesn’t like the spotlight. More power to him. I totally respect that he is happy playing for an under the radar team, just doing what he loves to do (I assume he loves the game, I have never heard one way or the other, tbh). I don’t fault HIM for that.

But that will still affect his legend, regardless. Rickey is extra loved because of the love he had for the game. He showed that love of the game every time he stepped on the field. Trout doesn’t broadcast that same emotion.

this is why most say Griffey Jr is better than Trout... if you base it on stats, Trout really should be better...

 

[calsnowskier]

Griffey only has a WAR7 of 54.0. His best WAR season was 9.7. His career WAR was 83.8.

i like the Kid. I got his autograph at ST when he was 18 or 19. He was one of my dad’s favorite players because while I was getting his autograph, he was surrounded by a bunch of kids throwing stuff at him to sign (not literally), so he yelled out (in a very fun way) “MOMMY! HELP!!”

Instantly became my dads favorite player.

 

[navamind]

Griffey only has a WAR7 of 54.0. His best WAR season was 9.7. His career WAR was 83.8.

i like the Kid. I got his autograph at ST when he was 18 or 19. He was one of my dad’s favorite players because while I was getting his autograph, he was surrounded by a bunch of kids throwing stuff at him to sign (not literally), so he yelled out (in a very fun way) “MOMMY! HELP!!”

Instantly became my dads favorite player.

54 is still a great WAR7. He just fell off a cliff in the 2000s