Top 10 poll #10: #10 player in history - Runoff

[MilkSpiller22]

I have been pretty loud with my attacks as well. But I stand behind my opinion of him. Great, but he doesn’t belong here. I am solid in my Hornsby/Wagner/Clemens stance right now.

wagner should fall off your stance... i think we looked at Speaker and proved speaker to be better...

 

[calsnowskier]

is pujols current?? he did retire... and i do have him better than Musial-maybe...

I am talking active. So only Ohtani, Trout and Judge. MAYBE Verlander or Max in the pitcher discussion.

 

[calsnowskier]

wagner should fall off your stance... i think we looked at Speaker and proved speaker to be better...

I never agreed with that. Wagner was a SS and put up Aaron level accumulation numbers

 

[calsnowskier]

I am happy to go deeper into Wagner/Speaker in the 11 nom thread. But that is a distraction to get too deep into that here.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I am talking active. So only Ohtani, Trout and Judge. MAYBE Verlander or Max in the pitcher discussion.

betts is the interesting current player... as he is a WAR darling... but lots of that is because he plays good defense.... of course he is a great player... but he doesnt feel like an elite one... even though his WAR makes him out to be one....

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I am happy to go deeper into Wagner/Speaker in the 11 nom thread. But that is a distraction to get too deep into that here.

i know proof to me might not be evident to others... and you might not have been sold... but i thought it was pretty clear...

 

[calsnowskier]

betts is the interesting current player... as he is a WAR darling... but lots of that is because he plays good defense.... of course he is a great player... but he doesnt feel like an elite one... even though his WAR makes him out to be one....

I haven’t done a deep dive on Betts. He MAY belong in the discussion, but my gut says he doesn’t belong in top 20-50 discussions. I may be wrong.

 

[calsnowskier]

i know proof to me might not be evident to others... and you might not have been sold... but i thought it was pretty clear...

I am open to be convinced. Even my current stance doesn’t tell me there is a large, clear difference between the two.

 

[LHG]

not sure why you even rank if you rank Mainly based on WAR... LOL just jabbing... not really serious...

WAR is a part of my ranking, but yes, I do look at more than just WAR . . . and if they wore uniforms that weren't a Yankee uniform.

 

[jon2tanman]

I would rank Maddux and Randy over Clemens.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I would rank Maddux and Randy over Clemens.

is that because of steroids... are because of play??

 

[Cedrique]

Joe Morgan is an interesting name. 70s in general seem easy to skip but thats Morgan, Schmidt, and Bench for me all as top 40. I suspect Schmidt will go way before the other two.

Yeah I got those guys coming up. Those guys don't have quite as many eye popping raw numbers but it was a little different era. The NL especially was more of a speed/defense league. Schmidt is the first one so far (except maybe Mays) where I place a lot of value on his defense. (then again he's the one I saw the most so I could be very biased)

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah I got those guys coming up. Those guys don't have quite as many eye popping raw numbers but it was a little different era. The NL especially was more of a speed/defense league. Schmidt is the first one so far (except maybe Mays) where I place a lot of value on his defense. (then again he's the one I saw the most so I could be very biased)

I respect that you have not gone overboard with your stumping of Schmidt, but I wonder if that has been detrimental. Musial is so strong at this point because he has had a serious stumper for him for multiple rounds now. Schmidt deserves more love, imho. Not that I would vote for him here, but I think he needs a stumper.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I respect that you have not gone overboard with your stumping of Schmidt, but I wonder if that has been detrimental. Musial is so strong at this point because he has had a serious stumper for him for multiple rounds now. Schmidt deserves more love, imho. Not that I would vote for him here, but I think he needs a stumper.

i stumped for schmidt a couple rounds ago... not hard... was hoping he would get traction... but didnt...

hard to continue stumping when player doesnt even make it to the first round of runoff...

But i have him easily top 15... and that would be above where i have musial... so suck it @Clayton....

 

[calsnowskier]

i stumped for schmidt a couple rounds ago... not hard... was hoping he would get traction... but didnt...

hard to continue stumping when player doesnt even make it to the first round of runoff...

But i have him easily top 15... and that would be above where i have musial... so suck it @Clayton....

To be fair, I am not certain who I rank higher between the two, but Schmidt is pretty much the hands down best 3B ever, and that carries weight with me. Musial is a 1B/LF, which is an absolute negative in his column. Positional scarcity is something that is not factored in enough in these conversations. Bench, Wagner and Schmidt should all be serious contenders in this neighborhood, I think.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

To be fair, I am not certain who I rank higher between the two, but Schmidt is pretty much the hands down best 3B ever, and that carries weight with me. Musial is a 1B/LF, which is an absolute negative in his column. Positional scarcity is something that is not factored in enough in these conversations. Bench, Wagner and Schmidt should all be serious contenders in this neighborhood, I think.

wagner is not my stump... i boosted ARod over Wagner...

i dont have wagner in my top 15...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

To be fair, I am not certain who I rank higher between the two, but Schmidt is pretty much the hands down best 3B ever, and that carries weight with me. Musial is a 1B/LF, which is an absolute negative in his column. Positional scarcity is something that is not factored in enough in these conversations. Bench, Wagner and Schmidt should all be serious contenders in this neighborhood, I think.

you know what soured me on musial?? for an offensive first player, he basically is all BA... he never hit over 40 HRs, his OBP is based on BA more than it is on the skill of Walking... he did walk a lot... but not as much as the other greats.. so he really is all BA... in a time where people WERE hitting HRs...

sure he was great at it... but i just feel like we have a picture of him being a better offensive bat than he was....

 

[calsnowskier]

wagner is not my stump... i boosted ARod over Wagner...

i dont have wagner in my top 15...

I have a real problem with ARod. He is a divide-by-zero error in my head. He played football when he was supposed to be playing basketball. How can you rank him?

Same with Ramirez and Pettitt and Cano. And to a lessor extent, Sosa. I would (conceptually) be more OK with including Jackson or Rose than ARod.

 

[calsnowskier]

you know what soured me on musial?? for an offensive first player, he basically is all BA... he never hit over 40 HRs, his OBP is based on BA more than it is on the skill of Walking... he did walk a lot... but not as much as the other greats.. so he really is all BA... in a time where people WERE hitting HRs...

sure he was great at it... but i just feel like we have a picture of him being a better offensive bat than he was....

This makes it seem like you value the walk MORE than you value the single. And I can’t agree with that. He was an OBP guy, and you seem to be allowing BA hatred to bleed over to influence you.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I have a real problem with ARod. He is a divide-by-zero error in my head. He played football when he was supposed to be playing basketball. How can you rank him?

Same with Ramirez and Pettitt and Cano. And to a lessor extent, Sosa. I would (conceptually) be more OK with including Jackson or Rose than ARod.

i understand the controversy... and agree with it... but we did vote bonds in already... so Steroids is not the reason... if you want to call him a cheater, thats fine, but how does that change his numbers??

i understand the difference between Bonds and ARod... i just dont think the accuracy of the term cheating matters here...