Top 10 poll #10: #10 player in history - Runoff

[msgkings322]

If we're talking about pitchers, Maddux had the 2nd and 3rd best seasons ever according to ERA+ and is known for defensive prowess.

Pretty good hitter too

 

[calsnowskier]

of course... but most use it as a career number... and that was how it was just used in a previous post to make me post that comment...

Rate stats at the career level are completely worthless. I don’t even acknowledge when they are mentioned.

Only counted numbers should be looked at at the career level. Rate states should only be viewed in buckets.

 

[LHG]

Joe Morgan is up there too. And Griffey. Maybe Ripken? George Brett?

In my current Top 30, I've got Clemens, Trout (the more I look at him, the more I think he belongs in Top 20), Schmidt and A-Rod. Top 50 would also include Seaver, Pujols, Johnson, Martinez, Maddux, Betts, Henderson, Morgan, Bagwell, Boggs and Kershaw.

 

[msgkings322]

In my current Top 30, I've got Clemens, Trout (the more I look at him, the more I think he belongs in Top 20), Schmidt and A-Rod. Top 50 would also include Seaver, Pujols, Johnson, Martinez, Maddux, Betts, Henderson, Morgan, Bagwell, Boggs and Kershaw.

No Ken Griffey Jr? Cal Ripken?

 

[calsnowskier]

If we're talking about pitchers, Maddux had the 2nd and 3rd best seasons ever according to ERA+ and is known for defensive prowess.

And I would totally accept him being viewed as the best ever. I think the TOP pitchers are all very close (Johnson, Maddux, Clemens are in that class - Young, I feel is a pube-width below these guys)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Rate stats at the career level are completely worthless. I don’t even acknowledge when they are mentioned.

Only counted numbers should be looked at at the career level. Rate states should only be viewed in buckets.

i agree... although we seem to do buckets differently... clearly...

 

[LHG]

No Ken Griffey Jr? Cal Ripken?

Got them at 65 and 61. I thought I'd rank Junior much higher but just couldn't after looking at the sum total of great MLBers.

 

[LHG]

Rate stats at the career level are completely worthless. I don’t even acknowledge when they are mentioned.

Only counted numbers should be looked at at the career level. Rate states should only be viewed in buckets.

i agree... although we seem to do buckets differently... clearly...

Comparing buckets seems awfully strange without the full scope of the career also considered. Are we looking for all time best based on their peaks, their careers or a combo of the two? I'd think a combo is the best way to measure.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Got them at 65 and 61. I thought I'd rank Junior much higher but just couldn't after looking at the sum total of great MLBers.

not sure why you even rank if you rank Mainly based on WAR... LOL just jabbing... not really serious...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Comparing buckets seems awfully strange without the full scope of the career also considered. Are we looking for all time best based on their peaks, their careers or a combo of the two? I'd think a combo is the best way to measure.

longevity does not have much weight for me... its definitely something... and i am not saying i dont use it... when it comes to longevity i care more about reaching milestones than how well a player did in his 20th best season...

 

[calsnowskier]

Comparing buckets seems awfully strange without the full scope of the career also considered. Are we looking for all time best based on their peaks, their careers or a combo of the two? I'd think a combo is the best way to measure.

I hate having the early years or the grandpa years influence rates. If you look at buckets, then those season are essentially ignored (which is exactly as I think they should be).

I like WAR7 because 7 solid seasons is a pretty good gauge of a solid career. If you prefer WAR5 or WAR9, more power to you. I did a full analysis of WAR#s for Gehrig, Hornsby and Wagner a few polls back, and I learned a lot looking at those numbers. Wagner was an AMAZING accumulator who put up MVP contending numbers pretty much his entire long career. But he didn’t have the HOF seasons that Hornsby had. That’s why I view Wagner more as an Aaron comp than a Bonds comp. And being a unicorn accumulator is its own thing, and shouldn’t be discarded off hand as I tended to do previously.

 

[Clayton]

Joe Morgan is up there too. And Griffey. Maybe Ripken? George Brett?

Joe Morgan is an interesting name. 70s in general seem easy to skip but thats Morgan, Schmidt, and Bench for me all as top 40. I suspect Schmidt will go way before the other two.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Joe Morgan is an interesting name. 70s in general seem easy to skip but thats Morgan, Schmidt, and Bench for me all as top 40. I suspect Schmidt will go way before the other two.

morgan, bench and Schmidt are all easily top 30 IMO...
where in that 30, idk....

but yea, schmidt has to be the highest...

still cant believe you have campaigned so well to get musial in the top 10.... i keep on looking at him, and pushing him down on my list... but i am beginning to think i am just a hater... but he is below top 15 for me...

 

[calsnowskier]

Joe Morgan is an interesting name. 70s in general seem easy to skip but thats Morgan, Schmidt, and Bench for me all as top 40. I suspect Schmidt will go way before the other two.

I think Schmidt, Morgan and Bench are going to be loud VERY soon. I think they are in the same tier with Rickey. 15-20?

 

[calsnowskier]

morgan, bench and Schmidt are all easily top 30 IMO...
where in that 30, idk....

but yea, schmidt has to be the highest...

still cant believe you have campaigned so well to get musial in the top 10.... i keep on looking at him, and pushing him down on my list... but i am beginning to think i am just a hater... but he is below top 15 for me...

I think bringing someone up and HARD stumping before they really belong has the danger of entrenching people in their “no” vote. I fear I have done that with Hornsby, but I truly feel he is worthy of my stumping.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think Schmidt, Morgan and Bench are going to be loud VERY soon. I think they are in the same tier with Rickey. 15-20?

and pujols.... but not trout for me...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think bringing someone up and HARD stumping before they really belong has the danger of entrenching people in their “no” vote. I fear I have done that with Hornsby, but I truly feel he is worthy of my stumping.

and i might have helped Musial with my bashing him... people feel bad for "the Man"...

 

[calsnowskier]

and pujols.... but not trout for me...

Only Ohtani belongs in any serious discussions as far as current players are concerned. But he hasn’t earned it YET.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Only Ohtani belongs in any serious discussions as far as current players are concerned. But he hasn’t earned it YET.

is pujols current?? he did retire... and i do have him better than Musial-maybe...

 

[calsnowskier]

and i might have helped Musial with my bashing him... people feel bad for "the Man"...

I have been pretty loud with my attacks as well. But I stand behind my opinion of him. Great, but he doesn’t belong here. I am solid in my Hornsby/Wagner/Clemens stance right now.