tOfficial "Tom Brady & the New England Patriots" Superthread

[Broncos6482]

I dont undertstand this conference weak shit. Even if Pats win 6 games by default, which 2 of their losses came to Miami and Jets, they should get exposed to the other 10 teams. Now they get to playoffs by being division winnners, they should get croaked by real teams in playoffs. I believe this is the 3 AFCG in a row and 8th in Brady/BB era

Yes, the Patriots have been very good. Again, I haven't said otherwise.

 

[sonnyblack65]

^^ those stats mean nothing because Peyton has never had any good receivers and never a HC as BB. Funny thing is GM Polian took Bills to 4 SB's in a row and setup same system in Indy with Tom Moore as OC for 12 years

 

[Broncos6482]

and you throw that the Jets went to 2 AFCG thats 10 AFCE teams in what 12 years

Yes the Jets went last in 2010, the division got bad in 2011.

 

[Broncos6482]

Way to move the lines. However, using last three years, just like you wanted, AFC East STILL has the best record against the other divisions at 40-32. West 34-38, North 39-33, and South 31-41.

Take the last three years and take off the best teams record, and the AFC East comes in second at 25-29. West 23-31, North 27-27, South 19-35.

Contrary to what you're saying the AFC East is either the strongest or second strongest team in the AFC over the last three or four years. The fact that none of the other three has finished over .500 probably says more about the parity between those teams than their quality.

I'm not moving the lines, I've been very consistent in saying that the AFC East hasn't been good since 2011. And you're still ignoring the NFC.

 

[JDM]

Do out the numbers for the NFC if you'd like. It won't show much different.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Yes the Jets went last in 2010, the division got bad in 2011.

I just looked up this year and the West was the only division with a better record than East and that with KC winning 7 more games so who know what 2012 looked like

 

[RoboticDreams]

You guys are still arguing the same thing?

 

[MRVegas]

Those stats are fun but don't mean much to me. They would if they were against the same D with the same weapons surrounding them. The funny thing is I'm hearing this game is Brady vs Manning and it's a legacy game. Not exactly fair to Brady is it? Both teams have been riddled with injuries, but Manning has all his weapons - Brady doesn't. Broncos should win this game.

 

[cerealboi]

I'm not moving the lines, I've been very consistent in saying that the AFC East hasn't been good since 2011. And you're still ignoring the NFC.

<Sigh> . Let's look at 2013.

AFC East is 8 - 8 against the NFC (South)

AFC West is 11-5 against the NFC

AFC North is 8 -8 against the NFC

AFC South is 3 - 13 against the NFC (!)

What does that tell us? We know that none of the AFC East teams played the teams the AFC West team played. Zero common opponents. AFC South looks bad right? But as you pointed out, maybe it's not because they are bad teams, but because the NFC West is really good.

In any event based on the above, what about those numbers tells you how strong or weak the AFC East is vis a vis the AFC West, North or South? The answer is not much.

 

[Jakology]

Those stats are fun but don't mean much to me. They would if they were against the same D with the same weapons surrounding them. The funny thing is I'm hearing this game is Brady vs Manning and it's a legacy game. Not exactly fair to Brady is it? Both teams have been riddled with injuries, but Manning has all his weapons - Brady doesn't. Broncos should win this game.

I disagree. Brady has plenty of weapons around him. Their very good running game, with 3 good backs to rotate. Their WRs are good at running routes. Not true #1 WRs, but they get the job done.

 

[JDM]

They have a decent running game this year, sure, but the weapons aren't exactly comparable.

 

[Jakology]

They have a decent running game this year, sure, but the weapons aren't exactly comparable.

I know. The Broncos have better weapons. But the Patriots defense is better. But if the Broncos defense plays like they did last week, I think the Broncos win this game by 10+.

 

[Broncos6482]

<Sigh> . Let's look at 2013.

AFC East is 8 - 8 against the NFC (South)

AFC West is 11-5 against the NFC

AFC North is 8 -8 against the NFC

AFC South is 3 - 13 against the NFC (!)

What does that tell us? We know that none of the AFC East teams played the teams the AFC West team played. Zero common opponents. AFC South looks bad right? But as you pointed out, maybe it's not because they are bad teams, but because the NFC West is really good.

In any event based on the above, what about those numbers tells you how strong or weak the AFC East is vis a vis the AFC West, North or South? The answer is not much.

And again, I go back to the 2011 season. The AFC East played the AFC West that year. The AFC West was bad. I would expect the AFC East to win a lot of those games. In fact the AFC East went 11-5 against the AFC West that season. That tells us the AFC East was a better division than the AFC West. What that doesn't tell us is the AFC East's relationship to the AFC North or South. Maybe the North and South were both really good and went 8-8 against each other. Maybe they were better than the AFC East but the record didn't reflect it because they were playing each other.

The AFC East was 11-5 against the AFC West, but just 2-6 against the other teams from the AFC. So all that tells us is the AFC East was better than the AFC West in 2011, but it's hard to say if they were better than the North or South (for the record, the AFC East was 2-2 against the AFC South and 0-4 against the AFC North).

 

[sonnyblack65]

Those stats are fun but don't mean much to me. They would if they were against the same D with the same weapons surrounding them. The funny thing is I'm hearing this game is Brady vs Manning and it's a legacy game. Not exactly fair to Brady is it? Both teams have been riddled with injuries, but Manning has all his weapons - Brady doesn't. Broncos should win this game.

I agree Peyton had better receivers in all years but 2007 with Moss and Welker throwing for 50 td's and 2010 with Gronk, Hernandez,Welker and he got first unanimous MVP. Give this guy weapons and will tear it up

 

[MRVegas]

Take Brady and Manning out of it and the Broncos in my eyes are clearly the better team. The Broncos injuries on offense happened before the season (Clady, Koppen). The Broncos O-line has been great this year without them and they have a running game too. Pats O-line is now playing great as it wasn't for much of the season. Pats, hence have found a great run game. But their is no question that their passing weapons are below avg, never mind being severely less than what the Broncos have which is best in NFL IMO.

Pats offense was a 2-TE oriented offense, both are gone and thier are no other TE who catch passes much. Their WR are small (Austin Collie is thier biggest who will play) and none of them are particularly fast (Edelman is the fastest). They drafted 2 bigger faster outside guys but Boyce is on IR and Dobson has been out a while and who knows if he will play. Pats can win, but Manning has his weapons against a beatable Pats defense, Broncos have no excuses.

 

[cerealboi]

And again, I go back to the 2011 season. The AFC East played the AFC West that year. The AFC West was bad. I would expect the AFC East to win a lot of those games. In fact the AFC East went 11-5 against the AFC West that season. That tells us the AFC East was a better division than the AFC West. What that doesn't tell us is the AFC East's relationship to the AFC North or South. Maybe the North and South were both really good and went 8-8 against each other. Maybe they were better than the AFC East but the record didn't reflect it because they were playing each other.

The AFC East was 11-5 against the AFC West, but just 2-6 against the other teams from the AFC. So all that tells us is the AFC East was better than the AFC West in 2011, but it's hard to say if they were better than the North or South (for the record, the AFC East was 2-2 against the AFC South and 0-4 against the AFC North).

Well now do the other years. Again - you're trying to prove that the AFC East is a weak division and all you've done is shown that it is middle of the pack in 2011. So 2011 proves you wrong.

 

[cdumler7]

Take Brady and Manning out of it and the Broncos in my eyes are clearly the better team. The Broncos injuries on offense happened before the season (Clady, Koppen). The Broncos O-line has been great this year without them and they have a running game too. Pats O-line is now playing great as it wasn't for much of the season. Pats, hence have found a great run game. But their is no question that their passing weapons are below avg, never mind being severely less than what the Broncos have which is best in NFL IMO.

Pats offense was a 2-TE oriented offense, both are gone and thier are no other TE who catch passes much. Their WR are small (Austin Collie is thier biggest who will play) and none of them are particularly fast (Edelman is the fastest). They drafted 2 bigger faster outside guys but Boyce is on IR and Dobson has been out a while and who knows if he will play. Pats can win, but Manning has his weapons against a beatable Pats defense, Broncos have no excuses.

Not sure the Broncos don't at least have some excuses . Both teams have been decimated by injuries this year. The fact that both are still standing at this point with the players they have lost I think shows the quality of the organizations and the depth that they have built. This game to me comes down to turnovers. Whoever wins the turnover war wins the game.

 

[tshirt]

Comcast SportsNet New England:

"It’s the game the football world has been waiting for. Over the course of this incredibly wacky season, it’s the only AFC Championship that ever truly made sense. It’s future NFL history, and here’s the best part: What happens next is a total mystery.

Sure, the Broncos are five-point favorites. With home field advantage and their record-setting offense, that’s probably fair. But in reality, five points means nothing. That’s just a place to get the ball rolling. There are obviously so many ways in which the Patriots can win. There are so ways in which the Broncos can win. And unfortunately, we have an entire week to drag out that conversation. But here’s a spoiler: No one really knows.

For all the analysis and Belistrating that lies ahead, once that opening touchback is in the air, all bets are off. And man, so much is on the line.
...
Both teams have their own story to tell ... In both cases, the face of that story is the quarterback.

It’s impossible to overstate just how significant this game is to the careers and legacies of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning -- both as individuals and as equal parts of the greatest QB rivalry in NFL history.
...
if Brady comes out on top, you know how the story goes. It’s the same one we’ve been hearing and believing for the last decade.
If Peyton wins? Lord, have mercy.

In general, I think Patriots fans have become somewhat numb to big losses in recent years. Super Bowl 42 was such an unbelievable shock to the system, and six years later New England is still looking for closure. It’s been a struggle. And getting so close so many times has taken its toll. In a weird way, it’s made losing easier.
Now, when something bad happens, that dark hole already exists, and Patriots fans can just crawl inside and escape the world.
But losing the AFC Championship to Peyton Manning and the Broncos would break down that emotional force field. It would hurt.

Then again, with that risk comes potential for the ultimate reward, the mere thought of how it will feel, and what it will mean, if Brady and Belichick walk into Denver...and come home as AFC Champs.
Either way, the anticipation is almost unbearable.

You know, year after year, and increasingly as the years go by, the NFL is an organization powered by hype. From the combine to the draft to training camp to the preseason to Week 1 and each week after that, everything in and around this league is the biggest and the best. Everything is drama. Everything is history. By Week 8, there have already been 10 “Most Important Games of the Year” and a handful of “unforgettable moments.”
I can’t tell you the exact number because I’ve already forgotten most of them. We always do. Over the course of the long NFL season, so much of what’s considered historic and significant turns out to be nothing. History is revised and rewritten every Sunday. And it will be again this week.

Only this time, history will stick. From a Patriots standpoint, that’s both exciting and horrifying, but it’s also so much better than the alternative (of never having been great at all)"

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

In all honesty if we look at the two teams rosters the Broncos should win this game with ease. The Patriots have so many injuries it's amazing they've been able to get this far. I give a lot of credit to their coaching staff for coaching guys up. It doesn't seem to matter who Brady throws the ball to, they seem to make plays. Manning has weapon after weapon to play with. The pressure will be on Peyton this Sunday in a BIG way.

 

[cdumler7]

In all honesty if we look at the two teams rosters the Broncos should win this game with ease. The Patriots have so many injuries it's amazing they've been able to get this far. I give a lot of credit to their coaching staff for coaching guys up. It doesn't seem to matter who Brady throws the ball to, they seem to make plays. Manning has weapon after weapon to play with. The pressure will be on Peyton this Sunday in a BIG way.

I agree the Patriots have had a ton of injuries but not like the Broncos haven't either...On defense alone they are missing Von, Vickerson, Wolfe, Harris, and Moore. Now that is just the starters who are out. For different parts of the season the Broncos have been without Champ and Woodyard and others have missed a game or two.

I will say the offense has held together pretty well but we are missing 2 starting OL players with one of those being an All-Pro and haven't had many games recently with all 4 of our big name receivers healthy. Actually haven't had that since before the last Pats-Broncos game until this last weekend against the Chargers.