tOfficial 2015 NBA Draft/Free Agency Thread

[gordontrue]

Wasn't me that jumped into a conversation and tried to make it into something it wasn't.

Anytime I see what I think is flawed logic in a discussion on here, I'll probably point it out. I don't see the issue with that.

I'd love to hear if you disagree or have any counter arguments on the significance of the Finals Win % stat.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Not sure where Bosh should have been rated (prob top 15-20), but whatever number is it, it needs to be higher then wherever you are ranking Love when he joined the Cavs.

Not sure how you can say Bosh was better. Love had better seasons and they both missed the playoffs the year before moving to their new teams. Love was a top 5 player. Bosh was top 10, but he wasnt better than Love lol. Now when they actually got to their new teams, they both dropped. I would say Bosh was better overall. It took Love longer to adjust and is still taking time.

Now Wade was in a different category than Kyrie, so if Purguy calls a super team a team with 2 top 3-5 players in the league, than yes. Then we have to call the Lakers with Kobe and Shaq a super team,

 

[Shanemansj13]

The early results didn't look promising, but that didn't change the expectations that were built from the day they united.
Regardless of any other roster in the league, if you have the best player and 2 other all stars, you need to win or at least expect to win.

That was my biggest issue with regard to Cavs fans excuses/expectations last season.
Once James traded Wiggins, there was no longer any grace period to be given.

The difference was Lebron had Wade, a top 5 player at the time and who won a championship. Lebron had Kyrie as his sidekick who never sniffed the playoffs. Big difference. Especially, when the 2 All-Stars got hurt, after that I didnt expect all that.

 

[Shanemansj13]

This year and on is a different story. Championship or bust.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Not sure how you can say Bosh was better. Love had better seasons and they both missed the playoffs the year before moving to their new teams. Love was a top 5 player. Bosh was top 10, but he wasnt better than Love lol. Now when they actually got to their new teams, they both dropped. I would say Bosh was better overall. It took Love longer to adjust and is still taking time.

Now Wade was in a different category than Kyrie, so if Purguy calls a super team a team with 2 top 3-5 players in the league, than yes. Then we have to call the Lakers with Kobe and Shaq a super team,

Depends on what your definition of better is.
I don't recall Bosh ever being benched for entire 4th quarters because the team performed better without him.

 

[gordontrue]

Another point Re: the expectations for the Cavs last season.

The expectations were (generally) much more tempered than the Heat's first season BECAUSE of the Heat's first season. 2011 served as an example of how hard it is to throw a really talented team together and find immediate success. It educated us.

People weren't as surprised or critical when the Cavs got off to a really slow start... because we had just seen what happened with the Heat in 2011.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

The difference was Lebron had Wade, a top 5 player at the time and who won a championship. Lebron had Kyrie as his sidekick who never sniffed the playoffs. Big difference. Especially, when the 2 All-Stars got hurt, after that I didnt expect all that.

I could see the expectations dropping off at that point, except one could argue that the teams play improved.

Eventually the lack of depth and the talent of the Warriors caught up to them, but James showed that if he has guys around him who can make open shots, it really doesn't matter what name is on the back of their jersey.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Depends on what your definition of better is.
I don't recall Bosh ever being benched for entire 4th quarters because the team performed better without him.

I was talking about going into the season with their new teams. Love never got benched on the T-Wolves

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Another point Re: the expectations for the Cavs last season.

The expectations were (generally) much more tempered than the Heat's first season BECAUSE of the Heat's first season. 2011 served as an example of how hard it is to throw a really talented team together and find immediate success. It educated us.

People weren't as surprised or critical when the Cavs got off to a really slow start... because we had just seen what happened with the Heat in 2011.

I think the only person who expected 70 wins was Wiggy.

By then, of course we knew of the growing pains, combined with James having a million more miles on him and knowing the regular season means little.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I could see the expectations dropping off at that point, except one could argue that the teams play improved.

Eventually the lack of depth and the talent of the Warriors caught up to them, but James showed that if he has guys around him who can make open shots, it really doesn't matter what name is on the back of their jersey.

Still makes a difference when two out of your three top players are gone whether you think so or not. The defense played better, but when they needed scoring which you ultimately need against a high-powered offense they didnt have many options. Kyries' ability to create and make shots was the difference.

 

[Shanemansj13]

So is Lebron going to play in the Olympics? Should he lol

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I was talking about going into the season with their new teams. Love never got benched on the T-Wolves

Why would THEY bench him?

I'm talking about their value to their new teams.
Both needed to learn, accept, and perform in basically the same role.
Bosh did a great job, Love not so much.
Maybe it changes. It really boils down to his mindset, but I know that Bosh was pretty tired of it based on his comments once James left.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

So is Lebron going to play in the Olympics? Should he lol

I hope he does cause it beats his body up more.
If he was on the Heat I would be very much against it.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Still makes a difference when two out of your three top players are gone whether you think so or not. The defense played better, but when they needed scoring which you ultimately need against a high-powered offense they didnt have many options. Kyries' ability to create and make shots was the difference.

Yep, you never can predict injuries, but with Kyrie/Andy you can assume.

If Gilbert wasn't so cheap, he could have added a prolific scorer like Joe Johnson.

 

[gordontrue]

Yep, you never can predict injuries, but with Kyrie/Andy you can assume.

If Gilbert wasn't so cheap, he alledgedly could have added a prolific scorer like Joe Johnson.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yep, you never can predict injuries, but with Kyrie/Andy you can assume.

If Gilbert wasn't so cheap, he could have added a prolific scorer like Joe Johnson.

He has proved he isnt cheap already lol. Yes, JJ would have added scoring and another option but JR can scoring just as well honestly. And the way JR played defense that part is just as good as well. JR is just streakier, but honestly Joe is pretty streaky too. Either way, they better get JR back or they are in trouble, it kills me to say this though lol.

 

[purguy12]

LOL at Bosh top 10

That's some funny shit!

At the time he was. That is 100% a fact. He was the best or #2 PF in the game at the time. That's some funny crap that you didn't k now that.


...... the lowest I can see someone ranking bosh at the time is 15 and that is a push.

 

[purguy12]

For only being together for 4 years, yes they only had 2 titles. But they were 4 for 4 at getting to the championship. I mean the first year they made, even with all the questions. I would say that is pretty successful. If he did that in Cleveland in 4 years, I would be thrilled.

Nope not close. it was ok but they failed. when you say not 1..2...3..4..5...6..7. u expect to win. They needed to win at least 3 in a row to be a success. Don't get me wrong 2 is nice but losing 50% of the time is not what they signed up for.

 

[trojanfan12]

Anytime I see what I think is flawed logic in a discussion on here, I'll probably point it out. I don't see the issue with that.

I'd love to hear if you disagree or have any counter arguments on the significance of the Finals Win % stat.

I was expanding on a post that another poster made in which they posted the winning percentages. The winning percentage in the finals of all of the players listed is higher than Lebron's winning percentage in the finals. Just as their records in the finals are better than Lebron's.

Whether you want to use numbers of rings, records in finals appearances, or winning percentage in the finals. It is all essentially the same stat. The logic isn't flawed because the stat is the same.

Example: Kobe has 5 rings, Lebron has 2. Kobe has a 5-2 record in the finals, Lebron is 2-4. Kobe has a finals winning percentage of .714, Lebron has a finals winning percentage of .333. It's all the same stat.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Trust me.
I know to take the 'insiders' words with nothing but a grain of salt.
That post was for Wiggy who thinks everything he reads is gospel.

Didn't the same 'insider' write this:


James will not begin contract discussions with Cleveland until the Cavs lock up power forward Tristan Thompson, according to ESPN's Brian Windhorst. The Cavs had reportedly reached an $80 million extension with Thompson on the first day of free agency, but the deal fell apart. There has been no update on the contract talks since.