tOfficial 2015 NBA Draft/Free Agency Thread

[Shanemansj13]

Are you really that desperate to defend Lebron? Seriously?!? It's the same stat and he was being compared to all time greats with more rings than him. It's the same stat.

Posting their records in the finals (which you seem to have no problem with) is no different than posting their winning percentage in the finals. The winning percentage comes directly from the record. It was a comparison among specific players.

What's next from you? The tired and played out "Robert Horry has more rings than everybody" defense? Quit making excuses for Lebron being 2-4 in the finals and just accept it. It isn't going to change his current finals record.

Guess what, if he wins a championship in Cleveland, he'll still only be 3-4 in finals and won't get bumped up the list just because it was in Cleveland.

You talking about us defending, but the thing you dont realize is you arent looking at it logically. Well if you dont get it now, it really doesnt matter. His record is his record, but it doesnt say the whole story and everyone knows that. The fact is you take the other side harder than we defend lol.

 

[trojanfan12]

Whether you say it or not, if you are a great team you have to produce I can agree on that. So Kobe and Shaq were together for 8 years and they won 3 titles. So that is a fail too! But you know it's Lebron, so you can deflect lol

There is a big difference between Shaq joining the Lakers after 4 years in the league and Kobe being a rookie than Lebron trying to put together "super teams" of veteran players.

While Shaq and Kobe had more success than Lebron's superteams. I do agree that they didn't win as many titles as they could have.

 

[trojanfan12]

You're not listening. I'm done with this topic.

Yeah, you don't like the stat, so I'm not listening.

 

[Shanemansj13]

So he was a top 5 player who got worse in Cleveland?

Championship or bust is based on the roster when the season starts. The Cavs were championship or bust before the season started based on their roster. You waiting until they got to the playoffs and suffered some injuries to say it wasn't, doesn't change anything.

He was a 3rd option. Obviously, you can put two and two together to figure that on out.

And then he says injuries doesnt change anything. It isnt an excuse, it happens, but that still doesnt change the fact expectations change. Even you should know this.

If Shaq doesnt get hurt it doesnt change anything for the Lakers Or Wade for the Heat

 

[trojanfan12]

You talking about us defending, but the thing you dont realize is you arent looking at it logically. Well if you dont get it now, it really doesnt matter. His record is his record, but it doesnt say the whole story and everyone knows that. The fact is you take the other side harder than we defend lol.

You're right, his record is his record and it doesn't change. You can cry about injuries, rosters, etc., etc. and it isn't going to change his record.

Lebron is the one who put himself in this spot. He was the one who left Cleveland to form a superteam in Miami and he's the one who left Miami to try and do the same thing in Cleveland. These are choices he made and he gets to live with the consequences of those choices. He doesn't get to make excuses just because his choices haven't worked out the way he thought they would.

No one makes excuses for Magic and the Showtime Lakers who, barring injuries a couple of times, may have ended up 7-2 in finals appearances instead of 5-4.

No one allows Larry Bird any excuses for his back giving out on him later in his career and possibly costing his Celtics teams another championship or 2. No one is going to make excuses for Lebron either. Except for Cavs fans apparently.

 

[trojanfan12]

He was a 3rd option. Obviously, you can put two and two together to figure that on out.

And then he says injuries doesnt change anything. It isnt an excuse, it happens, but that still doesnt change the fact expectations change. Even you should know this.

If Shaq doesnt get hurt it doesnt change anything for the Lakers Or Wade for the Heat

No, the injuries change nothing. When was the last time anyone made excuses for the Showtime Lakers in a couple of their finals losses when they had injuries? It doesn't happen because they got there what they got there with and it wasn't good enough.

@Cavs fans wanting "participation trophies" and for Lebron getting a "handicap" for his finals record like this is fucking golf or something. Maybe you Cavs fans can start a petition asking the NBA not to count whatever finals losses you feel shouldn't count against Lebron? Maybe they can put an asterisk next to the Spurs and Warriors titles so Bronbron and his fans can feel better.

 

[gordontrue]

@Cavs fans wanting "participation trophies" and for Lebron getting a "handicap" for his finals record like this is fucking golf or something. Maybe you Cavs fans can start a petition asking the NBA not to count whatever finals losses you feel shouldn't count against Lebron? Maybe they can put an asterisk next to the Spurs and Warriors titles so Bronbron and his fans can feel better.

Now you're just embarrassing yourself by showing off just how badly you misunderstand everything being said.

 

[trojanfan12]

Now you're just embarrassing yourself by showing off just how badly you misunderstand everything being said.

No, Cavs fans are just embarrassing themselves for not understanding how stats work, trying to make excuses for Lebron's woeful finals record and continuing to post on a topic you're "done with."

 

[LAD]

You're missing the point. Of course LeBron fans are going to emphasize things that make LeBron look good, just like his haters will emphasize things that don't... just like a fan/hater of any other player/team would do.

The point is.... an unbiased person can easily see how little Titles/Finals Apperances means. It just doesn't make sense as a stat. Imagine LeBron never played... he isn't in the discussion. Who (other than a biased MJ fan) would ever argue that that stat means anything?

I'll be the first to say that LeBron played poorly in the 2011 Finals... and that his 2 titles come up short when compared to some of the greats of the game - especially given the quality teammates he's had the past 5 seasons.

I'm just calling out the BS of pretending that losing in the Finals is worse than missing the playoffs, losing in the 1st round, losing in the conf semis, or losing in the conf Finals.

It doesn't make any sense. Its that simple.

Sounds like you're saying there aren't "levels" when it comes to losing. If you're not holding a trophy at the end of the season you're a loser. I couldn't agree more.

 

[LAD]

# of rings is a logical stat.
Finals record isn't.
Finals winning % (same thing as Finals record) isn't.

.

What I find interesting about this is that people rave about how MJ is undefeated in th Finals, even use it as a level of greatness when comparing his legacy to others' yet some people don't think it's fair to use it in the case of LBJ; even though he's trying to be one of the greatest players of all time.

On some occasions he wants to be in the discussion with other greats and in other cases (like when the stats don't favor him in a positive way) he doesn't want to be in the discussion?

 

[LAD]

Whether you say it or not, if you are a great team you have to produce I can agree on that. So Kobe and Shaq were together for 8 years and they won 3 titles. So that is a fail too! But you know it's Lebron, so you can deflect lol

That makes them a failure? Really? Even though they never promised 7 titles, got three...back 2 back 2 back and only had 2 superstars rather than 3? Hmmmmmmm.....

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

That makes them a failure? Really? Even though they never promised 7 titles, got three...back 2 back 2 back and only had 2 superstars rather than 3? Hmmmmmmm.....

I'd be real interested to see any quote where anyone on the Heat promised 7 titles.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

What I find interesting about this is that people rave about how MJ is undefeated in th Finals, even use it as a level of greatness when comparing his legacy to others' yet some people don't think it's fair to use it in the case of LBJ; even though he's trying to be one of the greatest players of all time.

On some occasions he wants to be in the discussion with other greats and in other cases (like when the stats don't favor him in a positive way) he doesn't want to be in the discussion?

Its also strange why so many others don't want to include losses in earlier rounds in those same discussions.

 

[Heatles84]

I guess you have a hard time reading, he was a top 5 player before he came to Cleveland lol.

I said once the injuries happened it wasnt championship or bust, so no it wasnt.

Sorry, but Kevin Love while he was with the T-wolves was not better than:

1. Lebron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Dwight Howard
4. Chris Paul
5. Russel Westbrook
6. Carmelo Anthony

Not sure how anyone could say Kevin Love is a top 5 player. Considering his defense is basic shit. Hell, I'd take a 39-year old Tim Duncan (for 1 year) over Kevin Love.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Yep. It's likely that the toll will effect Lebron more than the other players as well because he just went to his 5th straight finals. As much as Lebron is a physical freak, the miles will catch up to him. There's a price that these guys pay for that much success.

It will be interesting to see if Kyrie and Love can step up when the miles start to wear Lebron down.

They'll be lucky to be able to walk in May/June

 

[LAD]

I'd be real interested to see any quote where anyone on the Heat promised 7 titles.

I'm sorry you're correct. LBJ promised not 4, not 5, not 6 not 7.... Surely you remember that party.

 

[LAD]

Its also strange why so many others don't want to include losses in earlier rounds in those same discussions.

Whose losses? Because it's widely talked about in Kobe & Shaq's case...especially Kobe. It's talked about in MJ's case except where Finals are concerned since he's never lost in the Finals.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I'm sorry you're correct. LBJ promised not 4, not 5, not 6 not 7.... Surely you remember that party.

Yep.
I was there.
Nobody promised anyone, anything.
Go back and listen to it.
Then report to us on the words actually used.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Whose losses? Because it's widely talked about in Kobe & Shaq's case...especially Kobe. It's talked about in MJ's case except where Finals are concerned since he's never lost in the Finals.

I'm talking about why people hold James' losses in the Finals in some worse regard then Jordan losing in an opening or earlier round.

Of course a lot of it has to with which team is better in whatever round it occurs if you're comparing apples to apples.

So, did Jordan ever win a Finals series where he was not favored?

It's only happened to James once.

No one denies that the Heat prob should have beat Dallas, but his 2 Spurs losses and Warriors loss were certainly not unexpected.

 

[LAD]

Yep.
I was there.
Nobody promised anyone, anything.
Go back and listen to it.
Then report to us on the words actually used.

Hahahaha alrighty you want to play semantics. So if it wasn't a promise, was it a prediction then? Is that a better word? Goodness.

I'm pretty sure you're aware of the point here, as you're sharp as a tack. Sometimes as fans we gotta admit when a player(s) have literally stuffed their foot down their throat. This is that time for you. That whole scene didn't bode well with many at the time and with only 2 championships it clearly fell short of the expectation set forth.