Series Thread: TkSecond Round: Pittsburgh Penguins v. Washington Capitals

[Duke of Douchington]

Dacks and Dark.... I agree with you all on suspension worthy, because I think principal is the key word.

But would you guys also agree (as to intent) that Wilson did lower/bend his body down to whatever the dudes name is and had his arm/elbow tucked. I'm not going to defend Wilson's reckless behavior, I just think calling him trash or garbage is a bit much as he isn't displaying some of those telltale signs that he's TRYING to hurt a guy, as opposed to delivering big hits and certainly dancing all around the line.

Stop with the logic!!

 

[elocomotive]

If he's not on the Matt Cooke, Raffi Torres level yet, he's getting awfully close.

Agree on dangerous plays. Don't agree on that. Agree to disagree.

 

[Duke of Douchington]

The screen name you chose literally has douche in it.

And yeah, this board has an impressive core of highly intelligent and very hockey literate fans who have good discussions. Many of us have talking for 10-15 years now.

If you disagree, nobody is making you join in.


/Oh, and when you have two different hockey teams in your avatar, maybe not best to go the "insult their fandom" route. No team outside of the Caps would EVER FUCKING BE in my avatar unless I lost a bet.

My screen name is from another board...

I actually have 3 teams in my avatar. I guess I'm unsure of the connection to .jpg images and...anything? If I change my .jpgs to WNBA teams, I guess the context of your post is lost?

 

[elocomotive]

My screen name is from another board...

I actually have 3 teams in my avatar. I guess I'm unsure of the connection to .jpg images and...anything? If I change my .jpgs to WNBA teams, I guess the context of your post is lost?

You chose it once. And then decided to double down?!? Hahaha.

Sure, change your avatars from Golden Knights and Whalers (was giving you a pass on a defunct team). Nobody would ever know that.... oh wait.

 

[Duke of Douchington]

You chose it once. And then decided to double down?!? Hahaha.

Sure, change your avatars from Golden Knights and Whalers (was giving you a pass on a defunct team). Nobody would ever know that.... oh wait.

I changed my .jpgs.

Now what?

 

[Dacks]

Dacks and Dark.... I agree with you all on suspension worthy, because I think principal is the key word.

But would you guys also agree (as to intent) that Wilson did lower/bend his body down to whatever the dudes name is and had his arm/elbow tucked. I'm not going to defend Wilson's reckless behavior, I just think calling him trash or garbage is a bit much as he isn't displaying some of those telltale signs that he's TRYING to hurt a guy, as opposed to delivering big hits and certainly dancing all around the line.

He generally keeps elbows tucked, at least from what I've seen. Negative opinion is based mostly on the high number of accidental hits, or "good hits find wrong" that he's involved in. I think he's talented enough, and smart enough, to make them look like clean hits. (Unlike, say, Kadri in the first round, or some of Marchands hits.)

But, and you'll probably disagree, unlike other players that sometimes cross the line, I see more predatory intent in his play. Just my interpretation.

The trash comments... I consider those pretty light banter in a heated series. I never objected to similar terms applied to Cooke, and at this point, I'm pretty immune to what Sid gets labeled.

 

[dare2be]

I'll go with Jennifer Aniston or Shania Twain.

Mine was Ashley Judd. Sorry 43.

 

[ritari330]

I largely believe this is an NHL rules/enforcement issue, not a Tom Willson issue. He's a byproduct of what the NHL is willing to allow. He's sat down with various heads of DPS (the position seemingly changes every year) and gotten an understanding of what is and isn't allowed. He plays right up to that line and disregards player's safety because the DPS doesn't really care about player safety. Intent and recklessness aren't seen as important factors while outcome and results are. If they did actually care about the safety of their players, they would change their stance on CTE and have rules (and enforce them) closer to what is being talked about here.

Tom Wilson largely plays by the rules (as evidence by his general lack of supplemental discipline despite always in controversy), the rules are just bad.

 

[elocomotive]

I changed my .jpgs.

Now what?

Uhhh....

Sure, change your avatars from Golden Knights and Whalers

You eat a lot of paint chips as a kid or something.

 

[elocomotive]

He generally keeps elbows tucked, at least from what I've seen. Negative opinion is based mostly on the high number of accidental hits, or "good hits find wrong" that he's involved in. I think he's talented enough, and smart enough, to make them look like clean hits. (Unlike, say, Kadri in the first round, or some of Marchands hits.)

But, and you'll probably disagree, unlike other players that sometimes cross the line, I see more predatory intent in his play. Just my interpretation.

I wouldn't expect you not to have a negative opinion. But Wilson played four years in the NHL with no suspensions. He doesn't have the catalog of knee-on-knee or flying elbows you see from guys like Cooke. I just don't put him in that category. Much more akin to early career OV imo. Needed to keep the big hits, but not be reckless about them. He learned. I'm guessing Wilson will too. The looming suspension will help make sure he does.

Good post, @ritari330 also echoing similar sentiments.

 

[Droopdog51]

Dacks and Dark.... I agree with you all on suspension worthy, because I think principal is the key word.

But would you guys also agree (as to intent) that Wilson did lower/bend his body down to whatever the dudes name is and had his arm/elbow tucked. I'm not going to defend Wilson's reckless behavior, I just think calling him trash or garbage is a bit much as he isn't displaying some of those telltale signs that he's TRYING to hurt a guy, as opposed to delivering big hits and certainly dancing all around the line.

I think he has earned the trash and garbage label.

He got suspended twice for hits in the preseason. Preseason! How else do you describe someone that gets suspended twice in the preseason?



Hmm...looks like he makes a habit of putting his shoulder into people head.

 

[Duke of Douchington]

Uhhh....



You eat a lot of paint chips as a kid or something.

You told me that my .jpgs had some sort of influence on my posts.

So I changed that.

I didn't want pixelated images to skew my posting.

 

[Droopdog51]

Mine was Ashley Judd. Sorry 43.

She was hot but is bat sh!t crazy now.

I can't think of 90s hot without Charlieze Theron from "2 Days in the Valley"

 

[forty_three]

1) Wilson has a habit of targeting players with hard hits who are already engaged with other players and unable to avoid/protect themselves from the hits.

This is my biggest concern about him. Plus the fact it always seems to be young guys he goes after.

Dacks and Dark.... I agree with you all on suspension worthy, because I think principal is the key word.

But would you guys also agree (as to intent) that Wilson did lower/bend his body down to whatever the dudes name is and had his arm/elbow tucked. I'm not going to defend Wilson's reckless behavior, I just think calling him trash or garbage is a bit much as he isn't displaying some of those telltale signs that he's TRYING to hurt a guy, as opposed to delivering big hits and certainly dancing all around the line.

Counterpoint to the intent argument. The goal of a check is to separate the puck carrier from the puck, agree?

In this hit, Wilson has his mind made up to deliver the hit 10+ feet away. He has the angle and the timing looks good, classic trolley tracks. As he approaches, he turns to lead with his left shoulder, not his right which is technically closer. Had Wilson continued on his path and made contact with his right shoulder first, this is Scott Stevens level good hittin'. There's no possibility of head contact, no possibility of anything but shoulder on shoulder and the puck carrier loses the puck and winds up on his ass.

Where I think it becomes dirty and borderline intent to injure is when Wilson closes off his right and turns to lead with his left. This puts his leading shoulder past the plane of ZAR's shoulder and guarantees contact with something else down the line. Head, jaw, sternum, something. THAT is what makes this a reckless, dirty and dangerous hit. Had he stayed on path and drove through ZAR with his right, there is no issue.

He does this a lot. Look at the Wennberg hit. He turned to lead with the arm that had the best chance of making contact with Wennberg's head. And if you continue to purposely make the riskier, unnecessary play, you are by definition garbage. Jared Boll, for example.

And the lowering his own shoulder is another way to drive power up and through someone's jaw during the hit. Just saying.

Mine was Ashley Judd. Sorry 43.

You are only sorry because she is mine.

I largely believe this is an NHL rules/enforcement issue, not a Tom Willson issue. He's a byproduct of what the NHL is willing to allow. He's sat down with various heads of DPS (the position seemingly changes every year) and gotten an understanding of what is and isn't allowed. He plays right up to that line and disregards player's safety because the DPS doesn't really care about player safety. Intent and recklessness aren't seen as important factors while outcome and results are. If they did actually care about the safety of their players, they would change their stance on CTE and have rules (and enforce them) closer to what is being talked about here.

Tom Wilson largely plays by the rules (as evidence by his general lack of supplemental discipline despite always in controversy), the rules are just bad.

ding ding ding

No reason for him not to try it because the league has shown a willingness to tolerate it.

 

[sbb122]

What you saw was also not what the officials saw.

Who, you know, get paid to see what they see.

But, you guys clearly know more than the officials, so I'm surrounded by a bunch of former hockey experts. Should probably forward that resume to the Florida Panthers.

Yeah pretty much anybody who has watched a handful of NHL games know more about the game than the officials. NHL officiating has been terrible since i started watching in 1975.

 

[dare2be]

Tom Wilson largely plays by the rules (as evidence by his general lack of supplemental discipline despite always in controversy), the rules are just bad.

I would agree with you, except how is this a lack of supplemental discipline? Both within the last year:

• Oct 03, 2017 Suspended by the NHL for 4 games. Fined $97,560 by the NHL.

• Sep 23, 2017 Suspended by the NHL for 2 preseason games.

 

[elocomotive]

He got suspended twice for hits in the preseason. Preseason! How else do you describe someone that gets suspended twice in the preseason?

As a player that wasn't suspended for the four seasons prior and one who's been pretty tame this season since until the last few weeks. Meh... we won't agree. I just think he's more Brooks Orpik or Milan Lucic than Matt Cooke or Steve Downie. But I wear red glasses and you wear black/yellow, so that impacts the view as well.

 

[elocomotive]

Where I think it becomes dirty and borderline intent to injure is when Wilson closes off his right and turns to lead with his left. This puts his leading shoulder past the plane of ZAR's shoulder and guarantees contact with something else down the line. Head, jaw, sternum, something. THAT is what makes this a reckless, dirty and dangerous hit. Had he stayed on path and drove through ZAR with his right, there is no issue.

That's an excellent point. Clearly dude needs a timeout and a Seminar.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

You told me that my .jpgs had some sort of influence on my posts.

So I changed that.

I didn't want pixelated images to skew my posting.

What skews your posting goes far beyond anything you might find in an avatar.

 

[Duke of Douchington]

What skews your posting goes far beyond anything you might find in an avatar.

But the .jpgs are important I guess.