This Is So Stupid

[Sportster 72]

I worked on nuclear missiles without a degree. I also worked on electronics of F-14s without an advanced degree. Maybe those advanced degrees are overrated at times. They are good to be a social worker ... not that they are not needed as much as other jobs. Tell me about advanced degrees when someone is shooting at your ass.

 

[Stymietee]

I think It's an issue of comfort. Most folks agree that they're most comfortable around and amongst people like them. That's innate in who we are. White, black, yellow, red, etc. That's the truth. If you're gonna guarantee a man 20M bucks over 3 years that he can coach your team well, you had better be VERY comfortable with him. I think that just reinforces our innate need for people like us.

You make a good point about comfort but that says more about the uneven, unfair, unnecessary, structure originally created and supported to date. I marvel at how easy is it to use "comfort" as a (not the) leading reason to confine ourselves to "like" persons, without having the added burden of questioning why this sort of tribalism has become the norm. Considering one-sided historical standards applied to one group and the acceptance that these humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to inherited attributes not readily/equally found in any other group is in fact borne through socialization and is not natural (innate).

Jean Piaget, Mahzarin Banaji, and Albert Bandura among a host of others have done extensive studies on the psychology of this learned behavioral separation (I hesitate to use "racism" because of the obvious hot button reaction to its use) Of course from such studies come the famous Mamie Phipps Clark doll experiment in which a child given a choice between a "black" doll and a "white one, preferences the "white" one. The most telling attribute of virtually every one of these experimental/ studies is age group. Between 7 and 12 when children become more cognitively aware, social influence takes hold. That isn't innate, it's learned and as such can be unlearned.

I would be remiss in not noting the current tenor of a wide swath of the country that seems up in arms about being forced into unlearning the character flaw that has served previous generations so well. It seems to me that the revolution, not being televised, which began earnestly in 1967 challenges this socially driven "innate" character flaw as families become less "typical" of those presented in the 1940s, 50s, or early 60s, and more mixed because of that 1967 SC ruling. This scares the hell out of far too many in this country and we are witnesses to how important abortion, immigration, politics, et.al albeit couched as financial, political, or religiously based also are easily connected to this demographic change that's forcing the uncomfortable recalibration.

Sorry about the long response, I thought it important enough to not omit too much!

 

[Stymietee]

Take a stand for yourself, no one else will. Ask why you are not afforded the opportunity. Present why you are worthy enough of the opportunity not afforded to you but only to certain people. Be part of the solution and not the problem.

People have fought and died asking the questions and insisting upon (standing for) an equal opportunity long before either of us was alive. Personally, I've been arrested five or so times in my lifetime protesting these purposely unanswered questions and inequities. Please don't be one of those people who seem to believe that nothing happened in the world until they were born. We (the country) arrived at this point reluctantly and it's going to take more in-fighting to elicit greater progress. Platitudes aside although I enjoyed reading each of yours, aren't enough to tackle dug-in generational attitudes, demographic changes will deal with most of this, death another piece of it, and finally a concerted effort to eliminate separatist norms of parents and grandparents. (This generation properly calls that "Woke")

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Professional athletes need technique. It isn’t all about size and speed.

Teaching is not that difficult. There is a gift involved in it though.

One is more rare than the other. It's really that simple.

The reason we see professional athletes paid so much more than teachers is b/c the athlete's abilities are much harder to find than a school teacher's. It's about the relative scarcity of their skill sets.

 

[skinz2winz]

People have fought and died asking the questions and insisting upon (standing for) an equal opportunity long before either of us was alive. Personally, I've been arrested five or so times in my lifetime protesting these purposely unanswered questions and inequities. Please don't be one of those people who seem to believe that nothing happened in the world until they were born. We (the country) arrived at this point reluctantly and it's going to take more in-fighting to elicit greater progress. Platitudes aside although I enjoyed reading each of yours, aren't enough to tackle dug-in generational attitudes, demographic changes will deal with most of this, death another piece of it, and finally a concerted effort to eliminate separatist norms of parents and grandparents. (This generation properly calls that "Woke")

Great post Sty and I'm well aware how this Country was founded and the nepotism that still exist today. I also understand this world will never be perfect and will take generations after ours to create positive change towards equal opportunity not afforded to all. With that said, I'm happy to hear you have stood tall for what you believe in regardless of the outcome (arrest) and I wish their were more people in this world with the same passion as you to not sit on the bench and be a spectator. Life is too short!

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Solid discussion, different views and experiences in life, i think when it comes to these types of topics,
misunderstanding will usually lead to a "agree to disagree"
Seems like one side is saying, do everything possible within your power to get opportunities, don't be lazy or passive, make excuses or look for handouts.
The other side is saying -- when it comes to certain opportunities, how is this possible when, the employer would prefer family, his nationality, etc. And based on that -- even if a person is qualified he or she will be overlooked.
...interesting convo.....
I simply want to know when Dan Snyder evil dynasty will fall

 

[skinsdad62]

i cant dwell in the past . i can can make my mark here and now and hopefully it can impact the future . the expectation that life is fair and promises of equity is absolute folly . there is no utopia and man here on earth will never ever get it for you

if you grow up feeling you have no chance a a great life then thats you , life is what you make of it and if you are afraid to reach out and grab that better life then that is on you and you alone

the hard truth most wont grasp you have to have faith and if you dont you dont have anything

i am not going to take blame for shit i had nothing to do with i am an individual and not a collective

being miserable takes too much energy . if you act defeated then you deserve to be defeated

the maximum effective range of an excuse is 0.0 . adapt and overcome or fail that simple

 

[chillerdab]

Actually I have. I was a military flight instructor and won awards for it. I have also coached sports teams and won in those.

Literally nothing you posted was a fact. Maybe you should have had better teachers.

Of course you have gkekoa. A legend in your own mind, as per usual.

 

[chillerdab]

I worked on nuclear missiles without a degree. I also worked on electronics of F-14s without an advanced degree. Maybe those advanced degrees are overrated at times. They are good to be a social worker ... not that they are not needed as much as other jobs. Tell me about advanced degrees when someone is shooting at your ass.

Just because you can find any job that doesnt need an advanced degree doesnt negate the importance of having an advanced degree.

Wouldnt you want your daughter’s math or english teacher to be well versed in the very latest pedagogical theory?

Of course you would.

You dont need a degree to be a truck driver but damn if some people arent celebrating the shit out of those people.

You do need a degree to be any kind of doctor, including ones that dont often save lives.

And, for the record, because we refuse to do anything about gun control in this country teachers now have to train for active shooter drills.

Should they have to do that? Is thag what rhey signed up for?

Teachers are heroes and its the hardest job in the world.

 

[skinsdad62]

Just because you can find any job that doesnt need an advanced degree doesnt negate the importance of having an advanced degree.

Wouldnt you want your daughter’s math or english teacher to be well versed in the very latest pedagogical theory?

Of course you would.

You dont need a degree to be a truck driver but damn if some people arent celebrating the shit out of those people.

You do need a degree to be any kind of doctor, including ones that dont often save lives.

And, for the record, because we refuse to do anything about gun control in this country teachers now have to train for active shooter drills.

Should they have to do that? Is thag what rhey signed up for?

Teachers are heroes and its the hardest job in the world.

i think he meant in combat not about gun control

 

[gkekoa]

One is more rare than the other. It's really that simple.

The reason we see professional athletes paid so much more than teachers is b/c the athlete's abilities are much harder to find than a school teacher's. It's about the relative scarcity of their skill sets.

Actually they make money because they bring in revenue.

 

[Sportster 72]

Just because you can find any job that doesnt need an advanced degree doesnt negate the importance of having an advanced degree.

Wouldnt you want your daughter’s math or english teacher to be well versed in the very latest pedagogical theory?

Of course you would.

You dont need a degree to be a truck driver but damn if some people arent celebrating the shit out of those people.

You do need a degree to be any kind of doctor, including ones that dont often save lives.

And, for the record, because we refuse to do anything about gun control in this country teachers now have to train for active shooter drills.

Should they have to do that? Is thag what rhey signed up for?

Teachers are heroes and its the hardest job in the world.

There is no importance to have a college degree unless you want to work in a field that requires it. It does not make you superior. It makes you well versed in things like Philosophy, Social Sciences, Psychology .... the rest is trade school to perform a job or trade.

My experience with teachers is about 25% are very good, 500% are adequate and 25% suck. Pretty much the same as any job.

My grandfather who grew up in an orphanage was a truck driver. I guess I am one that celebrates truck drivers.

More students are shot than teachers. Maybe they should train students. Oh wait, it is often students shooting students. Hmmm??

Since it appears you are a teacher and you think you are important .... enjoy.

 

[Sportster 72]

Just for the record, I wrote my ex-wifes college thesis without ever taking a class in her curriculum and got an A.

I respect people that went to college, but I also respect people who work in a trade, serve in the military, police or fire department. I think it would be a better world if we appreciated others instead of looking down our nose at them as if you were better.

 

[Breed]

1 + 2 = 3

Teachers are a needed part of our work force. They are not heroes.

The military, cops, firemen ... those are heroes. JMO.

So are military, cops and firemen far as a needed part of our work force. I think heroes can come in all professions including teachers. And I don't think just because someone is a cop or a firemen or in the military they are automatically heroes. That's not to say I don't think everyone in the 3 professions isn't a hero. There most certainly are heroes in all 3 professions. There are also employees just going through the motions in all 3 professions. Just as there are teachers or computer programmers going through the motions.

I'd wager the vast majority of us find politicians to be absolutely useless and in some regards outright dangerous. And I'm not trying to carry anyone's water per se, but I think this dude is doing a good thing. Maybe its not heroic in the classical sense, but when you think in terms of how we as a country seem to falling further n further behind from a tech standpoint. At the very least one should be able to say this is a good thing. Silicon Holler: Ro Khanna says big tech can help heal the US heartland

 

[gkekoa]

Of course you have gkekoa. A legend in your own mind, as per usual.

Nope…just the facts.

Just because you believe a degree makes the person, doesn’t make what you claim to be factual. There are a bunch of idiots with doctorates. As a matter of fact, if you have a doctorate and don’t make at least 200k per year, then you are an idiot.

I have a masters in business and of course decided to fly helicopters. What good is my MBA? At least the military paid the for the masters.

 

[Breed]

Shit like this is why we’ve got the most embarrassing and incompetent administration in US history right now. Everything is based on identity and not qualification

It's funny that you think identity just started playing a part in our country. Its as if you think the country is 46 years old, not 246 years old.

 

[chillerdab]

Just for the record, I wrote my ex-wifes college thesis without ever taking a class in her curriculum and got an A.

I respect people that went to college, but I also respect people who work in a trade, serve in the military, police or fire department. I think it would be a better world if we appreciated others instead of looking down our nose at them as if you were better.

Just for the record, saying that teachers are important isnt looking down our nose at anyone.

Although I may or may not be a teacher, I certainly am important to some people. Perhaps, give or take, 500 people.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Actually they make money because they bring in revenue.

Athletes bring in revenue b/c their skill set is so rare. And it can be put head to head against others with similarly rare skill sets. That just isn't the case with teachers. Overall, I think we agree on this issue.

 

[Sportster 72]

So are military, cops and firemen far as a needed part of our work force. I think heroes can come in all professions including teachers. And I don't think just because someone is a cop or a firemen or in the military they are automatically heroes. That's not to say I don't think everyone in the 3 professions isn't a hero. There most certainly are heroes in all 3 professions. There are also employees just going through the motions in all 3 professions. Just as there are teachers or computer programmers going through the motions.

I'd wager the vast majority of us find politicians to be absolutely useless and in some regards outright dangerous. And I'm not trying to carry anyone's water per se, but I think this dude is doing a good thing. Maybe its not heroic in the classical sense, but when you think in terms of how we as a country seem to falling further n further behind from a tech standpoint. At the very least one should be able to say this is a good thing. Silicon Holler: Ro Khanna says big tech can help heal the US heartland

I agree, hero's can be seen by their deeds and not their jobs. Then too, it depends on what a person's definition of hero is.

 

[Stymietee]

Solid discussion, different views and experiences in life, i think when it comes to these types of topics,
misunderstanding will usually lead to a "agree to disagree"
Seems like one side is saying, do everything possible within your power to get opportunities, don't be lazy or passive, make excuses or look for handouts.
The other side is saying -- when it comes to certain opportunities, how is this possible when, the employer would prefer family, his nationality, etc. And based on that -- even if a person is qualified he or she will be overlooked.
...interesting convo.....
I simply want to know when Dan Snyder evil dynasty will fall

Good point but you have to admit that when one is sitting in a position of privilege, it's much easier to point a finger at the lesser privileged and extoll the lack of effort, especially when recent and past history insists otherwise. This is NOT an agreement to disagree with TOC, but one based on how people have learned how best to use language in order to support resistance to change.

Let me ask this question, what was and remains the motivation for Roger Goodell to consider, then make this move? The kindness of heart? His personal financial benefit? Perhaps he secretly dresses in leather and the blowback that he knew he'd get from this is another form of torture? Maybe, just maybe he's done this because the more simplistic, realistic answer was because he saw that there was constant pressure from people applying for these positions, and not getting them was also bad for the business. Competency is not something inherent to one type, group, or sector. he must have realized that opening the door to all, despite the blowback, better serves the bottom line.