The Sam Hinkie Experiment has ended

[ducky]

Depends on what they do with those picks. They can use them to try and stockpile a lot of young talent which may or may not work, but would take a few years to know.

That is kind of my point.

They could continue to just collect young assets but it would doom them to be a losing squad for at least a couple more years.

....and by the time they start to show improvement, they will have to be replacing guys like Okafor and Noel because they will be 4th and 5th year guys who are either demanding a trade or knowing they are going to jump ship as soon as they hit FA.

On the other hand, draft picks are good assets for trades, especially if the team looking to trade those picks isn't expected to be very good resulting in a higher pick. They trade a couple of those stockpiled picks for some solid veterans and they could be on the right track fairly quickly.

That is what they have to do.

I don't know who or how but the #1 priority for the 76er's is to get a talented vet PG who knows the ropes in this league and can help speed along the development of the younger players.

Ironically a guy that might fit that bill if they can't get a really good guy is a still only 25 year old Jrue Holiday.

 

[flyerhawk]

I also have to disagree with that.

They have a bunch of fool's gold right now.

They have a handful of future draft picks that have no better than a 50/50 shot of ever being good NBA players at best and none of those draft picks are going to help the team win games in the next couple of years. In fact because you have to play young kids most the time to see improvement, they probably make it harder for the 76ers to win in the coming years than easier.

In pro sport's where you are only given 3 or 4 years as a GM to start winning, taking over a team where the 76ers now is dangerous for your long term employment options. They will have to do one hell of a job there 5 years from now.

Well certainly the team, as constructed, is not going to do well anytime soon. But they have a lot of pieces. And they have a LOT of cap spaces. And a lot of draft picks.

If Stauskas, who will be entering his third season, Saric, his 3rd pro season, and Noel, his 4th pro season, can start putting it together a little next year. And they move Okafor for some talented but expensive vets(they don't even need to really move any big contracts to make this happen), including a desperately needed point, they could be instantly competitive next year.

I don't think they have fool's gold. I think they need to show actual basketball acumen and move the pieces around to build an actual team.


As was mentioned, the Thunder got to the NBA finals with a team of 22-23 year olds. Granted they did that because they hit big on 3 draft picks in a row but it can be done.

I think the Twolves are a player or 2 away from being a playoff team.

 

[trojanfan12]

Maybe now they can stop reshuffling the deck.

Philly has been a real shit show since that clown took over.

Javelle McGee is their highest paid player and he's not even on the roster.

I hope they get the # 1 pick because those fans deserve it.

Classic case where the fans deserve it, but the organization doesn't.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Not really - Minny has a .313 winning % vs. West opponents, .367 vs. East. It would be different if they were closer to .500 in that category, but they aren't.

Yeah, that's pretty close to the same.

But, his point is still valid about winning with youth.

Minny has built well thru the draft, just like OKC...and Utah.

Plus, there have been a few games that the Wolves coughed up at the end that they should have won.

Chalk it up to youth and inexperience.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

They aren't the only team that was built that way. They are just the most recent. Also, you have a guy on your team that people are saying is looking like he's going to be fairly other worldly himself in Wiggins.

Assuming natural improvement among the young guys, if the T-Wolves stay the course, they look to be a very good team within the next couple of years and are young enough to maintain it for awhile.

Not to mention Towns.

I said this in another thread yesterday...

I would take KAT over Davis because of contract and health.

Davis has missed 15- 20 games per year, for the last 4 Seasons.

The Wolves and Jazz have used the OKC model of building thru the draft to perfection.

 

[flyerhawk]

Maybe now they can stop reshuffling the deck.

Philly has been a real shit show since that clown took over.

Javelle McGee is their highest paid player and he's not even on the roster.

I hope they get the # 1 pick because those fans deserve it.

In fairness to Hinkie, the Sixers were an absolute train wreck when they took over.

 

[trojanfan12]

That is kind of my point.

They could continue to just collect young assets but it would doom them to be a losing squad for at least a couple more years.

....and by the time they start to show improvement, they will have to be replacing guys like Okafor and Noel because they will be 4th and 5th year guys who are either demanding a trade or knowing they are going to jump ship as soon as they hit FA.

I think their biggest issue is that they have too many redundant pieces. They drafted big after big and forgot that you need guards and small forwards. They are kind of the reverse of the Suns a year or 2 ago when the joke was that they were trying to go with a 5 point guard lineup.

They need a more balanced roster.

That is what they have to do.

I don't know who or how but the #1 priority for the 76er's is to get a talented vet PG who knows the ropes in this league and can help speed along the development of the younger players.

Ironically a guy that might fit that bill if they can't get a really good guy is a still only 25 year old Jrue Holiday.

Yeah, if they can turn 1 or 2 of their bigs and/or draft picks into a couple of solid guards, they could have a fairly quick turnaround.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

In fairness to Hinkie, the Sixers were an absolute train wreck when they took over.

Sure.

But, they weren't trading for guys, just to reach the salary floor, and then cutting them, eating the salary a week later.

That guy was a joke and he was making a mockery of the system.

The fans, the players, the City deserved better.

He was shipping guys in, shipping them out, trying to land the ever elusive franchise guy and he totally screwed them.

 

[ducky]

They aren't the only team that was built that way. They are just the most recent. Also, you have a guy on your team that people are saying is looking like he's going to be fairly other worldly himself in Wiggins.

Name me another team that had it's core mostly made up of 23 year olds and under that were winning games. It's a rarity. And considering 23 and 24 is the age when players start to get to decide where they want to play, it is hard to put together a all young team and have it all stick around.

People won't listen because they will look at just the stats and say "how can that be" but Wiggins is a losing player still. Big time in fact.

The Wolves have improved slightly from last year to this year but almost all of the improvement has come from Towns not Wiggins and Lavine.

If I had to bet my life on who is the future superstar of this team, it would be Towns not Wiggins. But again Towns is the exception and not the rule.

Assuming natural improvement among the young guys, if the T-Wolves stay the course, they look to be a very good team within the next couple of years and are young enough to maintain it for awhile.

Sadly the Wolves window is already going to start closing in the next year or two. If they aren't a playoff team in the next year or two, we will have to say goodbye to Wiggins. That is just how the NBA works with FA. The most talented players will move on quickly if they aren't winning for the most part.

It is why adding vet talent this offseason is so important. It is also why I am so concerned about them retaining our current GM. This offseason demands a long term vision for this squad. If they just status quo this offseason by using their draft pick and keeping it and signing average vets to fill the bench, they really run the risk of losing Wiggins and Towns a couple of years down the road.

 

[flyerhawk]

The Wolves and Jazz have used the OKC model of building thru the draft to perfection.

Which doesn't mean that either is ever going to win a championship because winning a championship in the NBA is really really hard and almost always requires having a truly dominant elite player to carry them through.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Well certainly the team, as constructed, is not going to do well anytime soon. But they have a lot of pieces. And they have a LOT of cap spaces. And a lot of draft picks.

If Stauskas, who will be entering his third season, Saric, his 3rd pro season, and Noel, his 4th pro season, can start putting it together a little next year. And they move Okafor for some talented but expensive vets(they don't even need to really move any big contracts to make this happen), including a desperately needed point, they could be instantly competitive next year.

I don't think they have fool's gold. I think they need to show actual basketball acumen and move the pieces around to build an actual team.


As was mentioned, the Thunder got to the NBA finals with a team of 22-23 year olds. Granted they did that because they hit big on 3 draft picks in a row but it can be done.

I think the Twolves are a player or 2 away from being a playoff team.

Seriously, who was gonna take their cap space if Hinkie was.still in charge?

Harrison Barnes for $25 mil?

Howard for 30?

No thanks.

Okafor or Embiid will have to go.

But, would you really wanna trade Jahill with Joel's track record?

 

[trojanfan12]

Not to mention Towns.

I said this in another thread yesterday...

I would take KAT over Davis because of contract and health.

Davis has missed 15- 20 games per year, for the last 4 Seasons.

The Wolves and Jazz have used the OKC model of building thru the draft to perfection.

Yeah, if the T-Wolves and Jazz continue to improve and the Lakers can get lucky in this draft and get a better coach, those 3 teams will become pretty darn good in a couple of seasons.

Add to that the fact that the Warriors are still fairly young, the Spurs are the best in the NBA at reloading, the Suns will eventually get their roster figured out and the West looks like it will be crazy good in a couple of years or so.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Which doesn't mean that either is ever going to win a championship because winning a championship in the NBA is really really hard and almost always requires having a truly dominant elite player to carry them through.

On this we agree.

Better teams have gone out ringless.

But, they have put themselves in a great position to have long-term success.

Hell, OKC still doesn't have one and they have 2 top.6 Players on their roster.....


Although.......I wonder if things would have been different if they chose.to pay Harden, instead of Ibaka?

 

[flyerhawk]

Sure.

But, they weren't trading for guys, just to reach the salary floor, and then cutting them, eating the salary a week later.

That guy was a joke and he was making a mockery of the system.

The fans, the players, the City deserved better.

He was shipping guys in, shipping them out, trying to land the ever elusive franchise guy and he totally screwed them.

The only guy you can really criticize Hinkie for trading away, IMO, is Holliday.

The Sixers were really fucked when he took over. Not only were they bereft of talent but they traded away TWO lottery protected 1st round drafts. Both of those picks expired and are being converted into less desirable picks.

The things I think you can really criticize Hinkie for is drafting solely based on talent and ignoring need. You can do that in the NFL when you have 53 guys on your roster that all matter. In basketball where it comes down to 5-8 players, you can't. IMO, it is inexcusable that he drafted Noel, Embiid, and Okafor especially given that the game is a backcourt driven game these days.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Yeah, if the T-Wolves and Jazz continue to improve and the Lakers can get lucky in this draft and get a better coach, those 3 teams will become pretty darn good in a couple of seasons.

Add to that the fact that the Warriors are still fairly young, the Spurs are the best in the NBA at reloading, the Suns will eventually get their roster figured out and the West looks like it will be crazy good in a couple of years or so.

Man......Randle was gobbling up boards like Pacman last night.

I was like.....Damn, Byron....put his ass on the bench...lol

 

[flyerhawk]

Name me another team that had it's core mostly made up of 23 year olds and under that were winning games. It's a rarity. And considering 23 and 24 is the age when players start to get to decide where they want to play, it is hard to put together a all young team and have it all stick around.

The Bulls team a few years ago was pretty darn young.

 

[flyerhawk]

Seriously, who was gonna take their cap space if Hinkie was.still in charge?

Harrison Barnes for $25 mil?

Howard for 30?

No thanks.

Okafor or Embiid will have to go.

But, would you really wanna trade Jahill with Joel's track record?

Hinkie had a analytical plan to build the Sixers and knew how to wheel and deal. But he didn't have enough basketball smarts to improve the team. And he was too arrogant to bring in the kind of hoops guy that could have helped him evaluate talent and build the team while he was wheeling and dealing. Which is why he is gone.

I think he left the Sixers in a vastly better position than they were when he took over but his own hubris prevented him from making them good.

 

[trojanfan12]

Name me another team that had it's core mostly made up of 23 year olds and under that were winning games. It's a rarity. And considering 23 and 24 is the age when players start to get to decide where they want to play, it is hard to put together a all young team and have it all stick around.

I didn't say all 23/24 or younger. I said young teams building through the draft. Additionally, the Celtics are another team that is young and built almost exclusively through the draft. A couple of seasons ago, people were making jokes about all of the draft picks they were stockpiling...they are currently the #4 seed in the East.

Sadly the Wolves window is already going to start closing in the next year or two. If they aren't a playoff team in the next year or two, we will have to say goodbye to Wiggins.

It is why adding vet talent this offseason is so important.

I'm not sure I would be so certain that he'll leave. If he likes Minnesota, believes in the players around him and management is willing to pay him, I think there's a good chance he'll stay.

I do agree though that if they add the right veteran FA or 2, it could get them to the playoffs sooner and increase the chances that he stays. It's definitely a lot harder to walk away from a playoff team.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

The only guy you can really criticize Hinkie for trading away, IMO, is Holliday.

The Sixers were really fucked when he took over. Not only were they bereft of talent but they traded away TWO lottery protected 1st round drafts. Both of those picks expired and are being converted into less desirable picks.

The things I think you can really criticize Hinkie for is drafting solely based on talent and ignoring need. You can do that in the NFL when you have 53 guys on your roster that all matter. In basketball where it comes down to 5-8 players, you can't. IMO, it is inexcusable that he drafted Noel, Embiid, and Okafor especially given that the game is a backcourt driven game these days.

I don't blame him for shipping out Holiday.

Dude is still recovering from that injury and it's years later.

Mcw was fools gold, so ditto.

This is more whAt I am referring to when I say they are a joke....

Philly signs and waives people seemingly every day, and they haven't always given agents a heads-up about their plans before putting a guy on the waiver wire, per league sources. They dealt for Jorge Gutierrez in the Andrei Kirilenko deal, assured Gutierrez's people he would have a role there, and then waived him while he was on the team bus, sources say.

Philly hasn't always been polite about this stuff, and they also haven't always had time to observe the niceties. Agents today are talking a big game today about how this will cost Philly down the line when the Sixers finally want to sign players. Some agents claim they have already steered willing guys away.


Lowe: Checking the temperature of 'The Process' in Philly

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Hinkie had a analytical plan to build the Sixers and knew how to wheel and deal. But he didn't have enough basketball smarts to improve the team. And he was too arrogant to bring in the kind of hoops guy that could have helped him evaluate talent and build the team while he was wheeling and dealing. Which is why he is gone.

I think he left the Sixers in a vastly better position than they were when he took over but his own hubris prevented him from making them good.

If they get that Lakers pick, things will look very different...

* puts in mouthpiece for when TF12 sees this post *