The Playoff Suspension Thread...

[Darkstone42]

Downie's was first, but I don't think this was retaliatory, since Downie hit Lovejoy.

 

[pixburgher66]

seriously.. some of the guys in the game, not just pens who are getting a lot of bad press lately, just have no respect for each other.. you can sell out for a hit and try to break bones (i'll probably appreciate that hit), but going straight for the head is just classless

bones heal, brains dont.

Amen. Too many athletes just DONT get that. Heck, I guarantee you 99% would rather a concussion than a broken leg. That is unless they'd had one already. I HATE concussions. So very much. I'd hope that if these guys were educated on just how horrible they are they wouldn't dole these shots out. But like you said, there's no respect. It's very odd. These are respectable men making bone-headed decisions.

 

[elocomotive]

I take back what I said about this being on the level of the Cooke elbow.

It's worse. 5 games at the least.

Yeah, that's nasty. I think you are right. Could be even more. If they are doing a "playoff series" types suspension, I think this round and next is very possible. Definitely not what the Pens need right now regardless and Mario must be beside himself.

 

[quoipourquoi]

2 minute penalty.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Wow that was way over the line

 

[elocomotive]

I HATE concussions. So very much.

Strong stance, Pix. Anyone want to play devil's advocate, here?

 

[elocomotive]

2 minute penalty.

Why stop there? Shouldn't Gagne get an interference call for impeding Kunitz's arm? Typical Simon Gagne! What do you expect from a guy with almost 300 PIMs in more than 700 career games.

 

[Darkstone42]

Strong stance, Pix. Anyone want to play devil's advocate, here?

Sure. I love them. They build character.




Not really.

 

[awaz]

Amen. Too many athletes just DONT get that. Heck, I guarantee you 99% would rather a concussion than a broken leg. That is unless they'd had one already. I HATE concussions. So very much. I'd hope that if these guys were educated on just how horrible they are they wouldn't dole these shots out. But like you said, there's no respect. It's very odd. These are respectable men making bone-headed decisions.

i see what you did there.

 

[Dacks]

Definitely looks bad there.

Compare to Heatley:


Marchand:


I think Kunitz's was a little worse, but Heatley's was just as intentional (and away from the play) and Marchand was similarly to the back of the head of an unsuspecting player.

Both those plays warranted 2 regular season games, and they were both pretty recent. Was Kunitz's so much worse that it will get a longer suspension, considering we're in playoffs?

 

[Darkstone42]

I think Kunitz's was harder than Heatley's and he went out of his way more than Marchand to make contact with the head. Plus Heatley hit Ott, which everyone appreciates.

I think the Penguins also have a target on them because of Lemieux's comments.

EDIT: I also think both the Heatley and Marchand hits deserved at least 7 games each, which is how I feel about most elbows.

 

[Dacks]

I think Kunitz's was harder than Heatley's and he went out of his way more than Marchand to make contact with the head. Plus Heatley hit Ott, which everyone appreciates.

I think the Penguins also have a target on them because of Lemieux's comments.

Yeah, I agree on both those. But those were 2 regular season games. By the math I've heard hockey analysts use, a 4 playoff games is roughly equal to 8 regular season games (double).

So Kunitz's was worse than Heatley and Marchand. 4 times worse? ... I have trouble seeing that.

2 or 3 games, I think. 1 or more for Downie, if replays show he left his feet early.

 

[awaz]

i think the only reason that heatley one isn't as bad as the kunitz one is because ott was facing him.. heatley's actions were exactly the same as kunitz's

i dont think the marchand one was as bad, it might've had the same result, but at least he didn't give the full extension of the arm to make sure he hit him in the head

regardless, i'm disappointed those 2 didn't get longer suspensions.. they want head shots out of the game, these are more intentional than some of the hits that have gotten much heavier suspensions

based on the precedent set by those two suspensions i have a hard time believing kunitz gets any more than 2.. but collie is anything but consistent..

 

[Dacks]

I think Kunitz's was harder than Heatley's and he went out of his way more than Marchand to make contact with the head. Plus Heatley hit Ott, which everyone appreciates.

I think the Penguins also have a target on them because of Lemieux's comments.

EDIT: I also think both the Heatley and Marchand hits deserved at least 7 games each, which is how I feel about most elbows.

While I generally agree, I put more blame on the NHL and hockey culture in general than the players. Messier and Gordie Howe were famours for their elbows. HOFer Scott Stevens is most famous for thunderous head-targeting (with shoulder) concussion-inducing, career-ending hits. That wasn't so long ago. The game is changing, appropriately so, but it's going to take some adjustment. The more consistent the NHL is with their sanctions, the quicker that adjustment will be made.

 

[pixburgher66]

While I generally agree, I put more blame on the NHL and hockey culture in general than the players. Messier and Gordie Howe were famours for their elbows. HOFer Scott Stevens is most famous for thunderous head-targeting (with shoulder) concussion-inducing, career-ending hits. That wasn't so long ago. The game is changing, appropriately so, but it's going to take some adjustment. The more consistent the NHL is with their sanctions, the quicker that adjustment will be made.

A lot of it comes with education. The medical community is just starting to fully understand what concussions are, what they entail, how to treat them (which is still very vague for a condition so prominent). Because of the new found knowledge the league has to make changes. You can't knowingly let it happen obviously...the next step is showing the players what the ramifications of these shots are. How they hurt the player they hit, how they can literally ruin a guys life. Like you said, there are growing pains...I just hope it changes quickly.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Why stop there? Shouldn't Gagne get an interference call for impeding Kunitz's arm? Typical Simon Gagne! What do you expect from a guy with almost 300 PIMs in more than 700 career games.

Honestly though, I don't understand the point of having elbowing as a minor penalty if every elbow is going to be a suspension.

 

[Darkstone42]

While I generally agree, I put more blame on the NHL and hockey culture in general than the players. Messier and Gordie Howe were famours for their elbows. HOFer Scott Stevens is most famous for thunderous head-targeting (with shoulder) concussion-inducing, career-ending hits. That wasn't so long ago. The game is changing, appropriately so, but it's going to take some adjustment. The more consistent the NHL is with their sanctions, the quicker that adjustment will be made.

It seems like the fans made the transition first, at least from reading this board. Most, if not all, of us consider these hits with the utmost scrutiny, never considering the punishments to be long enough, whereas the league is hesitant to start getting serious about sanctions, the officials seem unclear as to what the rules are, and the players are confused as to where the line is that they can't cross.

 

[elocomotive]

Yeah, I agree on both those. But those were 2 regular season games. By the math I've heard hockey analysts use, a 4 playoff games is roughly equal to 8 regular season games (double).

So Kunitz's was worse than Heatley and Marchand. 4 times worse? ... I have trouble seeing that.

2 or 3 games, I think. 1 or more for Downie, if replays show he left his feet early.

Also have to consider Kunitz's reputation compared to Heatley and Marchand. I don't know how they compare, but clearly it's an important factor for the NHL. (look no further than Cooke and Chara)

I also think you could characterize Heatley/Marchand as getting their elbow up with skating. With Kunitz, there is this violent acceleration of his arm for a split second that just takes it to a whole 'nother level, both in the pounds of force it can deliver and in how you perceive the intent. You see H/M and think "that's kinda dickish," you see Kunitz and think "that was evil."

 

[pixburgher66]

It seems like the fans made the transition first, at least from reading this board. Most, if not all, of us consider these hits with the utmost scrutiny, never considering the punishments to be long enough, whereas the league is hesitant to start getting serious about sanctions, the officials seem unclear as to what the rules are, and the players are confused as to where the line is that they can't cross.

I think every fan has had a player go down in some sport with one, and doesn't want to see it happen again. That and we're all pretty smart on here...we know what's good for the players/league and what isn't. Clearly removing head shots is a good thing. All I know is, when Sid comes back, I want to know there's a protection against another headshot. That's not possible in it's entirety, but there are strides to be made to ensure the number of intentional shots go down.

 

[pixburgher66]

Wow...my posts aren't making the sense I'd like them to. BED TIME! Night all!