THE PAC 12 THREAD v.3

[WizardHawk]

UW will beat the beavos by 20+ again this year.

They let you out of the dungeon and this is what you do with it?

UW's defense isn't anywhere near what it was last year and Mannion is statistically one of the top QB's in their school history, as well as one of the Pac greats. Go ahead and put a bet on a blow out win if you choose, but leave me out of it. I won't take them lightly.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm supremely confident in our new coaches in the longterm, but it's obvious the transition is not going to be without its challenges.

End of day were 2-0. We didn't do it pretty, but right now were getting a lot of important game reps and experience before PAC play.

Right now if we can be 4-0 entering PAC play, we're sitting well for a bowl birth and we'll see how PAC play goes. I'm not going to over analyze things right now. The coaches are trying a lot of new looks and still plenty to be positive about.

Go Dawgs!! 2-0.

End of the day, with the new staff, new schemes, etc. the idea is to just win the games. You can worry about looking good doing it later.

 

[Ironbreaker]

They let you out of the dungeon and this is what you do with it?

UW's defense isn't anywhere near what it was last year and Mannion is statistically one of the top QB's in their school history, as well as one of the Pac greats. Go ahead and put a bet on a blow out win if you choose, but leave me out of it. I won't take them lightly.

 

[WizardHawk]

End of the day, with the new staff, new schemes, etc. the idea is to just win the games. You can worry about looking good doing it later.

Maybe I'm still leery after watching Holt not be able to ever get a defense here, and maybe my dislike of the 3-4 defense is clouding my judgement as well, but I'll be surprised at this point to see them get that defense rolling this year. Improve? Sure. Couple more games under their belt and the true freshmen DB's might start playing with more confidence, but they had almost no pass rush against eastern wa with a fully veteran front 7? Not sure how you fix that.

Who else in the conference uses the 3-4 defense? Anyone?

 

[WizardHawk]

You've known me long enough by now IB to know I'm a realist, not a blind drum banging homer. I'm not sold on the 3-4 and until I see them do something with it I won't be putting up cash on games.

 

[WhiteMamba]

3-4 is more effective vs the Oregon's of the world.

 

[WhiteMamba]

Got home and only got to watch the UW game as it was on Wiz.

Will watch couple other PAC games dvr'd today.

 

[Ironbreaker]

You've known me long enough by now IB to know I'm a realist, not a blind drum banging homer. I'm not sold on the 3-4 and until I see them do something with it I won't be putting up cash on games.

meh I hate the 3-4. Nor am I a blind drum banging homer. But I'm not scared of the beavers nor their trash talking sycophants.

Anyway...

 

[trojanfan12]

Maybe I'm still leery after watching Holt not be able to ever get a defense here, and maybe my dislike of the 3-4 defense is clouding my judgement as well, but I'll be surprised at this point to see them get that defense rolling this year. Improve? Sure. Couple more games under their belt and the true freshmen DB's might start playing with more confidence, but they had almost no pass rush against eastern wa with a fully veteran front 7? Not sure how you fix that.

Who else in the conference uses the 3-4 defense? Anyone?

USC is actually using both the 4-3 and 3-4.

 

[WizardHawk]

meh I hate the 3-4. Nor am I a blind drum banging homer. But I'm not scared of the beavers nor their trash talking sycophants.

Anyway...

I wasn't implying you were a drum banging homer, I simply said I'm not one.

But I'm not sure of which beaver fan you speak unless it's outside of this board. Wallace is the lone ranger left here and his trash talking is about as tame as it gets.

 

[WizardHawk]

USC is actually using both the 4-3 and 3-4.

I'll believe it works when I see it work and not before. It may come down to the coaches ability to use it effectively and teach it as well as the scheme itself. UW had a solid front 7 going into the season and so far I've seen gaping holes in the run game against Hawaii and not nearly the kind of pass rushing pressure you'd expect from a power 5 team vs a FCS Oline yesterday. They do have a few more weeks to work on it, but the Pac conference schedule is no place to be putting out a work in progress defense. Even that Cal game now on the road has to be looked at seriously as Dykes has their offense rolling.

That Cal @ Arizona game in a couple of weeks now will tell us a lot about Cal, but the don't look like the doormat of the north anymore. Thus far the cellar dwellers in the North are clearly the cougs. Couple of flat tires on that bus right now. Not going anywhere.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'll believe it works when I see it work and not before. It may come down to the coaches ability to use it effectively and teach it as well as the scheme itself. UW had a solid front 7 going into the season and so far I've seen gaping holes in the run game against Hawaii and not nearly the kind of pass rushing pressure you'd expect from a power 5 team vs a FCS Oline yesterday. They do have a few more weeks to work on it, but the Pac conference schedule is no place to be putting out a work in progress defense. Even that Cal game now on the road has to be looked at seriously as Dykes has their offense rolling.

That Cal @ Arizona game in a couple of weeks now will tell us a lot about Cal, but the don't look like the doormat of the north anymore. Thus far the cellar dwellers in the North are clearly the cougs. Couple of flat tires on that bus right now. Not going anywhere.

I definitely wouldn't buy into it until I saw it actually work, but as you preached all off season, this is a new staff with new schemes and different ways of doing things. It will take time.

USC started 2-5 under Pete Carroll, finished 6-6 in his first season and lost to Utah in the Las Vegas Bowl. That team wasn't all that different in talent and experience than your Huskies.

 

[Ironbreaker]

I wasn't implying you were a drum banging homer, I simply said I'm not one.
.

It's all good.

We have a lot of work to do, no doubt about it. However in both of our games I saw stuff I liked in the second half. Which tells me we are making correct halftime adjustments. vs EWU the D did a few good things that we didnt see in the first half, including stopping EWU. However Peters meltdown ruined that and a few other penalties kicked us in the nads EVERYTIME the D did something noteworthy.

Our secondary is a concern no matter how you slice it. They are young and have to face a grueling schedule full of elite qb's and receivers. Time will tell that tale.

Whoze DAT azzclown? Same guy WE pelted last year over XMAZ DAY holiday in "Highwire"?

"Winning!" :charlie:Try again and THIS TIME try to kick me in da nutz instead of the shoulder blade.
NEXT!

Petersen didn't coach BSU in their bowl.


I'll take UW line unseen vs the beavers in an avi bet.

 

[WABLTY]

3-4 is more effective vs the Oregon's of the world.

USC is actually using both the 4-3 and 3-4.

That has less to do with the 3-4 being better against it and more to do with it being more difficult to find good defensive linemen. It's the same in the NFL. The 3-4 almost went extinct pretty recently with only really Pittsburgh hanging onto it consistently, but all the "tweeners" we heard about in the late 90s and early 2000s were actually ideal 3-4 OLBs that could be had for cheap. Thus the comeback. Even the Ravens made the move shortly after their superbowl when they didn't have two fatbody DTs anymore. More a function of availability of quality players than schematic superiority.

In college, a lot of teams are running hybrids right now. Could align as a 4-2-5, 3-3-5, 4-3 or 3-4 with functionally the same personnel. If they're running a 4-3 with a nosetackle, which is fairly customary, the personnel differences aren't that significant.

 

[WizardHawk]

I definitely wouldn't buy into it until I saw it actually work, but as you preached all off season, this is a new staff with new schemes and different ways of doing things. It will take time.

USC started 2-5 under Pete Carroll, finished 6-6 in his first season and lost to Utah in the Las Vegas Bowl. That team wasn't all that different in talent and experience than your Huskies.

I'm not concerned right now with the long term viability of the schemes, only talking this season.

I'd have to go look at the talent he had then, but UW had a solid veteran front 7 coming in that played very well last year and their adaptation to the 3-4 has been anything but smooth. Maybe they come together over the next few weeks and maybe this is a multi-year project. Time will tell.

 

[WhiteMamba]

Wow. I can't believe Oregon exercised those demons. Get punched by a power team, down at half, 2nd half starts the same and then boom, an Oregon explosion of points and great defense.

I have to say Coach Helf got bumped up a couple notches in my book. Coming out at halftime and completely dominating the reigning Rose Bowl champs like that. Props to Frost and Pellum and the rest of the staff for getting it done in the 2nd half.

Oh, and Connor Cook is an NFL QB. He makes those. NFL throws from the pocket that you see at the cfb level every once in a while.

 

[Ironbreaker]

Wow. I can't believe Oregon exercised those demons. Get punched by a power team, down at half, 2nd half starts the same and then boom, an Oregon explosion of points and great defense.

I have to say Coach Helf got bumps up a couple notches in my book. Coming out at halftime and completely dominating the reigning Rose Bowl champs like that. Props to Frost and Pellum and the rest of the staff for getting it done in the 2nd half.

Oh, and Connor Cook is an NFL QB. He makes those. NFL throws from the pocket that you see at the cfb level every once in a while.

I saw when the momentum change occured. Simple thing like a missed tackle. After that one play the rout was on. Had MSU held there, I think they would have actually gone on to win.

After that it was like the wind was out of their sails, instantly and completely.

 

[WABLTY]

I'm not concerned right now with the long term viability of the schemes, only talking this season.

I'd have to go look at the talent he had then, but UW had a solid veteran front 7 coming in that played very well last year and their adaptation to the 3-4 has been anything but smooth. Maybe they come together over the next few weeks and maybe this is a multi-year project. Time will tell.

Danny Shelton has literally gone from dude nobody had heard of to award candidate in 2 weeks. If you're running a 3-4 with a nosetackle getting that kind of production, you're going to be just fine.

Washington's problem is in the back end

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm not concerned right now with the long term viability of the schemes, only talking this season.

I'd have to go look at the talent he had then, but UW had a solid veteran front 7 coming in that played very well last year and their adaptation to the 3-4 has been anything but smooth. Maybe they come together over the next few weeks and maybe this is a multi-year project. Time will tell.

Here is the list of guys from PC's first year that went on to the NFL for at least a tryout.

Marcell Allmond
Kevin Arbet
Chris Cash
Matt Cassel
Shaun Cody
Keary Colbert
Kori Dickerson
Justin Fargas
Lonnie Ford
Matt Grootegoed
Gregg Guenther
Alex Holmes
Norm Katnik
Kareem Kelly
David Kirtman
Jason Leach
Matt Leinart
Malaefou MacKenzie
Grant Mattos
Sultan McCullough
Ryan Nielsen
Carson Palmer
Mike Patterson
Troy Polamalu
Kris Richard
Bernard Riley
Jacob Rogers
Antuan Simmons
Kenechi Udeze
Lenny Vandermade
John Walker
Lee Webb

I think your Huskies will be fine and it may be as early as this season. You guys are 2-0 and that's what matters right now.

 

[WizardHawk]

I'm not saying the season is over, just saying after watching Holt for 3 years do nothing with quality kids and really knowing very little about this new staff and their ability to teach/coach talent at this level I'll maintain and believe it when I see it view of that unit.

I've seen enough of the offense to think they should continue to gel and move forward, however I still maintain that their play caller is a concern of mine. Not sold on him yet.