THE PAC 12 THREAD v.3

[WhiteMamba]

We brag about it or we defend it?

Or we brag about it because it rustles Fusky fans so badly?

 

[WhiteMamba]

Phil has donated way more into academics tHan football

 

[963BUSC]

Yeah. Obviously there need to be rules and a governing body to enforce them. However, there also need to be limits, standards and guidelines with regard to that governing bodies ability to dole out punishment. The NCAA says they want to be able to treat each case individually, but the problem is that it has led to their decisions being so inconsistent that they appear to be completely arbitrary in nature.

What do you mean by appear to be completely arbitrary? Is there any evidence at all to suggest that their penalties aren't completely arbitrary? If they actually have rational reason behind their penalties why can't they explain them? And why are they fighting so hard to keep the records sealed?

 

[trojanfan12]

We brag about it or we defend it?

Or we brag about it because it rustles Fusky fans so badly?

I'd say it's twofold:

You guys definitely brag about it, but it also has the added benefit for Ducks fans of rustling the Huskies.

 

[trojanfan12]

What do you mean by appear to be completely arbitrary? Is there any evidence at all to suggest that their penalties aren't completely arbitrary? If they actually have rational reason behind their penalties why can't they explain them? And why are they fighting so hard to keep the records sealed?

I was just trying to be nice with my wording and give them a little benefit of the doubt (not that they deserve it).

 

[BeaverShaver]

Nice strawman you made there. Of course USC has major donors and of course those donors get the red carpet treatment. Also, of course a $100 million donation to the cinematic arts program or for a new building frees up an equal or close to it amount to be spent in other ways just like any other program. No one has claimed differently.

What is different is that you don't see USC fans or other teams fans on here bragging about it. You can talk about donations and how money is spent at other schools you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Ducks fans come off like the rich kid whose Daddy bought him an expensive sports car telling people "look at the car I just bought."

I didnt bring it up. In fact I have never brought it up.

Every post I make about money, Uncle Phil, etc is in response to someone else shooting off their mouth without knowing the facts. Usually it is Husky fans, this time it was a u$c fan. Take a look backwards. Count how many times a Duck fan "brags" about the money. Then count how many times Husky fans like @RegentDenali bring up "Nike U", and Uncle Phil.

You can try to whitewash the argument as much as you want TF, but you are just flat out wrong in this one.

 

[trojanfan12]

I didnt bring it up. In fact I have never brought it up.

Every post I make about money, Uncle Phil, etc is in response to someone else shooting off their mouth without knowing the facts. Usually it is Husky fans, this time it was a u$c fan. Take a look backwards. Count how many times a Duck fan "brags" about the money. Then count how many times Husky fans like @RegentDenali bring up "Nike U", and Uncle Phil.

You can try to whitewash the argument as much as you want TF, but you are just flat out wrong in this one.

Another strawman? Perhaps you should quit while you're behind. No one said you specifically. However, several Ducks fans, including Mamba, have posted many pictures of the Oregon facitlity upgrades over the years, post pictures of every uniform change and spend a lot of time bragging about the facilities and uni's. I don't see anyone else doing this.

You, yourself, spent several pages in this or another thread directly crediting the uniform changes for all of the winning that Oregon has been doing over the past 10 or so years. I don't see anyone from any other fanbase doing this.

I get that Ducks fans are proud of the facilities, their school, their team, their uni's, etc. and If you guys want to brag about them, have at it. Just don't try and pretend like everyone else is doing it too. I'm very happy with what USC has done already re: upgrading the football facilities and Heritage Hall as well as what has been done and what is planned for the future to upgrade the Coliseum.

However, the only bragging you are likely to see me doing is in a few years when the Coliseum project is complete, I may brag that Mamba can't call it the "Mausoleum" anymore.

 

[BeaverShaver]

Another strawman? Perhaps you should quit while you're behind. No one said you specifically. However, several Ducks fans, including Mamba, have posted many pictures of the Oregon facitlity upgrades over the years, post pictures of every uniform change and spend a lot of time bragging about the facilities and uni's. I don't see anyone else doing this.

You, yourself, spent several pages in this or another thread directly crediting the uniform changes for all of the winning that Oregon has been doing over the past 10 or so years. I don't see anyone from any other fanbase doing this.

C'mon TF....you are better than this....

"Directly crediting the uniform changes for all of the winning"???

I know you are better than this, and much smarter.

There is a HUGE difference between saying that "a strong marketing presence and fancy uniforms helps recruiting" and saying that "our uniforms make us win".

I get the feeling you are just poking at me.....and that's cool. After all, its the off-season, what the hell else are we going to do?

 

[trojanfan12]

C'mon TF....you are better than this....

"Directly crediting the uniform changes for all of the winning"???

I know you are better than this, and much smarter.

There is a HUGE difference between saying that "a strong marketing presence and fancy uniforms helps recruiting" and saying that "our uniforms make us win".

I get the feeling you are just poking at me.....and that's cool. After all, its the off-season, what the hell else are we going to do?

That's pretty much exactly what you did before backing off when myself, 4d20 and a couple of others pointed out that coaching, beginning with Belotti, is why you guys have done so much winning over the past 10+ years.

 

[Olyduck]

I feel like in the last few year or so I have seen half a dozen posts about new facilities and such. I remember a couple years ago Huskies talking all about the renovations. UNLV,s mock ups, UCF and their beach club, utah getting upgraded, Texas A&M renovations, Alabama facility upgrades about 2 years ago.
I know all this because there were posts.

 

[Vitamike]

Here's my donation to Page 420...

 

[trojanfan12]

Here's my donation to Page 420...

I think we can all agree that this needs to be made a real postage stamp.

 

[BeaverShaver]

That's pretty much exactly what you did before backing off when myself, 4d20 and a couple of others pointed out that coaching, beginning with Belotti, is why you guys have done so much winning over the past 10+ years.

Wrong again dude. The thread is titled "New College Football Helmets".

Go back and read every one of my posts. I never once equated uniforms with winning. My point was simple, and I never backed off.

Here is my point, yet again...

"Uniforms (along with a strong marketing presence) do matter. Maybe not to schools with tons of history and tradition (USC, tOSU, Alabama, etc). But at a school like Oregon it cannot possibly hurt."

Please show me where I said "Fancy Uniforms=Winning"

I agree with all of your pints about coaching, etc. You are right. In fact we are both right. But you are arguing something different. I am pointing out that Uniforms, marketing, etc do matter for many schools. You are arguing that good coaching equals victories.

If uniforms and marketing did not matter, then answer this...why do other schools do it? Fancy uniforms at Baylor...logo and uniform overhaul at TCU.....UCLA has multiple uni combos....UW had an American flag embedded in their W, and also has multiple uniform combos. Look around you....just because its not happening at USC doesnt mean its irrelevant. Team regularly advertise for "black-outs, blue-outs, white-outs, etc" The fans AND the kids love it. The recruits eat that shit up. Does it ultimately decide their school for them. Probably not, but you cannot tell me they dont pay attention to it, and love it.

 

[963BUSC]

I was just trying to be nice with my wording and give them a little benefit of the doubt (not that they deserve it).

I assumed so, sometimes I lose my sense when I start talking about the NZAA regime, and their lack of standards and come across like I'm attacking posters.

 

[TheLonestarDUCK]

Shouldn't even post due the redundancy - go through the thread. Not one Oregon fan brought up the facilities or donations. All responses on that topic were in response. All schools have wealthy alumni that donate. Oklahoma State has Boone Pickens, Oklahoma has the Gaylord family, Bama has the Bryant family, Wisconsin had the Kohl's family - list goes on n on. Get over it Fuskies and Trojans. Huskies need to focus on not taking last place in the North, Trojans need to focus on winning the South. The Ducks need to focus on bigger and fast LB's to hopefully
win their first natty.

 

[trojanfan12]

I assumed so, sometimes I lose my sense when I start talking about the NZAA regime, and their lack of standards and come across like I'm attacking posters.

I feel you on that one. One thing that's pretty funny with all of this, is that all of the complaints about the way the NCAA handles these things that USC fans, alums, etc. had, have been proven true in pretty much every case they have touched since then.

If McNair wins his lawsuit, it's going to be very interesting to see what the NCAA's reaction is.

 

[trojanfan12]

Shouldn't even post due the redundancy - go through the thread. Not one Oregon fan brought up the facilities or donations. All responses on that topic were in response. All schools have wealthy alumni that donate. Oklahoma State has Boone Pickens, Oklahoma has the Gaylord family, Bama has the Bryant family, Wisconsin had the Kohl's family - list goes on n on. Get over it Fuskies and Trojans. Huskies need to focus on not taking last place in the North, Trojans need to focus on winning the South. The Ducks need to focus on bigger and fast LB's to hopefully
win their first natty.

So you are denying that Oregon fans brag about and have/do post pictures of their facilities and uni's? Seriously?

Additionally, no one has claimed that other schools don't have major donors, etc. The difference is that we don't brag about them, post pictures, etc. You Duck fans can try and claim otherwise all that you want, but you can't change the fact that Ducks fans are the only one's doing it.

Oregon fans even post that stuff when it involves possible uniform changes at other schools. Case in point, the "New College Football Helmets" thread started by a Ducks fan.

 

[BeaverShaver]

I'm over it. Can we talk about something else? I didnt see anyone else go public with their 2015 Pac predictions?

 

[trojanfan12]

Wrong again dude. The thread is titled "New College Football Helmets".

Go back and read every one of my posts. I never once equated uniforms with winning. My point was simple, and I never backed off.

Here is my point, yet again...

"Uniforms (along with a strong marketing presence) do matter. Maybe not to schools with tons of history and tradition (USC, tOSU, Alabama, etc). But at a school like Oregon it cannot possibly hurt."

Please show me where I said "Fancy Uniforms=Winning"

I agree with all of your pints about coaching, etc. You are right. In fact we are both right. But you are arguing something different. I am pointing out that Uniforms, marketing, etc do matter for many schools. You are arguing that good coaching equals victories.

If uniforms and marketing did not matter, then answer this...why do other schools do it? Fancy uniforms at Baylor...logo and uniform overhaul at TCU.....UCLA has multiple uni combos....UW had an American flag embedded in their W, and also has multiple uniform combos. Look around you....just because its not happening at USC doesnt mean its irrelevant. Team regularly advertise for "black-outs, blue-outs, white-outs, etc" The fans AND the kids love it. The recruits eat that shit up. Does it ultimately decide their school for them. Probably not, but you cannot tell me they dont pay attention to it, and love it.

Nope. You claimed that it's a big part of a recruits decision making and used that as a reason that Oregon has attracted the recruits that have led to them winning. It was pointed out that's not the case and you started backtracking and finally agreed that it might influence a recruit if all else was equal and they were having trouble deciding.

The winning actually started with Bellotti, you guys just didn't get the publicity because the Pete Carroll era at USC started right around that time. Once Uncle Phil saw what was possible, he started dumping money into the program.

I'd bet that over the years of changing uniforms, it has, at best, made a difference to maybe a handful of recruits. Nowhere near enough to make much of a difference in Oregon's overall winning. Recruits may like seeing that stuff, but if you think those uni changes are anything more than an outlier in the decision making process, you either give the uni's too much credit or not enough to the recruits.

I'd also say that Oregon's style of offense and the video game numbers they put up in most games is far more attractive to a top recruit than the uniforms.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm over it. Can we talk about something else? I didnt see anyone else go public with their 2015 Pac predictions?

North:

1. Oregon
2. Stanford
3. Washington
4. Oregon St.
5. Wazzou
6. Cal

Washington and Oregon St. could easily swap places and if Stanford's o-line and running game improves, they could overcome the Ducks, but I don't think they will.

South:

1. UCLA
2. USC
3. ASU
4. Arizona
5. Utah
6. Colorado

I can see any of the top 4 in the South winning the division. While they will not win the South, I think Utah will have a huge say in who does as I expect them to beat 1 or 2 of the top 4 teams.