The new footy thread

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We've also got a massive population base and plenty of money for training facilities, etc. (to differentiate from countries like China and India). We should be better.

I can't dispute that, but since hosting the World Cup in 1994 (a little over 20 years), I think US soccer has made some pretty big strides.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

We've also got a massive population base and plenty of money for training facilities, etc. (to differentiate from countries like China and India). We should be better.

the pay TO PLAY model is probably what differentiates north america from the rest of the world ... alot of kids are being missed

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

the pay TO PLAY model is probably what differentiates north america from the rest of the world ... alot of kids are being missed

I wasn't even thinking of it like that. I was thinking more along the lines that we have the money to provide excellent facilities, staff, kits, medical equipment, and all of that kind of stuff, as opposed to kids even being able to play in the first place. But yeah, that's a good point.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I wasn't even thinking of it like that. I was thinking more along the lines that we have the money to provide excellent facilities, staff, kits, medical equipment, and all of that kind of stuff, as opposed to kids even being able to play in the first place. But yeah, that's a good point.

I know you werent ... just highlighting there is all this money in north america as you mentioned for youth soccer ... yet kids are made to pay

the guardian piece i posted in this thread hit the nail right on the head

since it was about the US (even though it applies in canada) ... you have the kids playing at elite levels whose parents can afford for them to play on travel and rep teams and the best hungriest poorest kids never move forward to elite programs

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I know you werent ... just highlighting there is all this money in north america as you mentioned for youth soccer ... yet kids are made to pay

the guardian piece i posted in this thread hit the nail right on the head

since it was about the US (even though it applies in canada) ... you have the kids playing at elite levels whose parents can afford for them to play on travel and rep teams and the best hungriest poorest kids never move forward to elite programs

I haven't read the article, but I think part of that goes to infrastructure and lack of talent scouting. The general model for football, basketball, or baseball is really no different in the US, other than the fact that there's a better mechanism in place for getting recruiters/scouts to visit HS or club games for those sports than for soccer.

 

[esls79]

I was looking at it more along the lines of the culture kids are being brought up in - the never a loser always a pat on the back for a good job, you tried your best - to me we are seeing the fruits of that philosophy with acceptance of mediocre results.

 

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I was looking at it more along the lines of the culture kids are being brought up in - the never a loser always a pat on the back for a good job, you tried your best - to me we are seeing the fruits of that philosophy with acceptance of mediocre results.

esls has a point, I don't remember nearly the participation ribbons/medals/trophies being handed out when I played soccer as I see being handed out these days in athletic competitions. Are we being too soft on the kids?

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I was looking at it more along the lines of the culture kids are being brought up in - the never a loser always a pat on the back for a good job, you tried your best - to me we are seeing the fruits of that philosophy with acceptance of mediocre results.

i kinda agree with this but for me its more ... parents with money who want their kids to play soccer and they are paying for them to take up spots on elite teams when they really arent the best youth players out there ... and if you want to take it a step further ... dont have the same passion about the sport

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Klinsy got crucified for it but when he said if you havent made it at 23 then youre never gonna make it ... thats basically the global ethos for sawker ... yet in the states the end goal of youth soccer seems to be ... go play ncaa

 

[esls79]

i kinda agree with this but for me its more ... parents with money who want their kids to play soccer and they are paying for them to take up spots on elite teams when they really arent the best youth players out there ... and if you want to take it a step further ... dont have the same passion about the sport

Yeah, in either case it's producing kids that don't have the drive or incentive to get to that next elite level

 

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You knew it was coming...

 

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On the one hand, you gotta love the plucky lads from Iceland. Part of me was looking forward to a England - France matchup though.

 

[Dacks]

I was looking at it more along the lines of the culture kids are being brought up in - the never a loser always a pat on the back for a good job, you tried your best - to me we are seeing the fruits of that philosophy with acceptance of mediocre results.

Having played and coached, I think the issue is it takes multiple generations to develop a knowledge base. The coaches I had growing up didn't know much about soccer - I learned more about the game playing recreationally overseas for one year than I did in 10+ years of competitive soccer in Canada in the 90s.

Now the coaching is better - the younger players are being taught the right skills. I see a huge difference. But it might not pay off for another 15 years.

As for the "do your best" philosophy, it's a double edge sword. If you go too far towards rewarding winning at ages 10-12, you lose a lot of kids that might be phenomenal post-puberty, because they can't compete with bigger kids and make the competitive squads. Or you train kids to do things that work at that age (like kick and chase) but develops long term losing habits. Or you just burn kids out - in my swimming days I saw over coached 12 year olds setting national records but training 4 hours a day. They would typically quit within 3 years.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Maybe straying off topic a bit here, but I think the rise of participation trophies goes hand in hand with the rise in insane, over-zealous parents. Some of the kids games I've been to in recent years were downright terrifying because of the way some the parents screamed. You've got a 16 great old kid refereeing a bunch of kids who can't kick the ball (or swing the bat, shoot the ball, etc.) without falling over, and the parents are threatening to take the kid's head off because he failed to call an illegal throw in.

So that's led to leagues not keeping score. And if you don't keep score, you don't know who won. So everyone gets a trophy.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

lmao

 

[jstewismybastardson]

"Theyve sold a skoda for a lamborghini for the last 15 years"

Very hearty slow clap for this

 

[jstewismybastardson]

 

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Call me crazy, but I think jstew is enjoying this latest failure of English sawker...

 

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Oh, stop blubbering and enjoy your free trip

Icelandic firm offers England players free whale-watching holiday to ‘recover from defeat’

 

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Pictures from downtown Reykjavik

http://www.dv.is/sport/2016/6/27/myndaveisla-thjodhatid-i-midborg-reykjavikur/