The NBA rookies Thread

[Gman]

Tatum v. Lonzo tonight... national TV.

I hope the C's match-up Marcus Smart against Lonzo all game long.

This is why I wanted Mah-cus on Ballie-boy...

 

[LogicMan]

This was my first game seeing Ball the whole time. They played him 40 minutes which is way too much. You cant coach out bad traits if you dont pull him aside and catch the little things.

Right now I dont see the skills that make sense for him as the #2 pick. Maybe top 10 but not ahead of players like Big M, Tatum, Fox, etc. For sure that shot has to be fixed, the ball spins sideways and not straight over.

 

[flyerhawk]

Tatum tweaked his ankle. It sounds like they are just being overly cautious but he'll have tests tomorrow to make sure.

Ball's handle is fine. It's not filthy by any means but its effective enough, especially considering he's not much of an athlete. He's kind of slow but he sees the floor well enough to where he can anticipate where a defender is going and then react. But if he gets a guy that Ds him up, he's got little chance of beating them off dribble. He just doesn't have the burst like a Kyrie or Dame (or really most PGs...he's really slow)

Ball's handle is fine if he isn't being challenged. The moment someone gets in his grill he dishes.

As I said, that could be a confidence issue which can be addressed. But if he is going to be a good PG he can't treat the rock like a hot potato.

 

[trojanfan12]

Gotta say, Ball is way too passive. He's a rookie so that's not a huge concern but he needs to get more aggressive. Not in his shot selection, certainly, but his general play.

Agree. It's something he's working on. The coaching staff and his teammates are telling him to be more aggressive. He's getting a little better at it, but he's very inconsistent with it.

Bill Simmons is questioning his handle because Ball keeps constantly dishing the ball. Not sure if that is because of a lack of a handle or a lack of confidence but Ball definitely needs to command the offense more.

Yeah, his job is to move the ball, not necessarily get all of the assists. I don't think he lacks handles or confidence. I think he's doing his job, but he needs to learn that, as you say, there are some times when he needs to "command the offense."

His nature is to get the ball moving and let his teammates do their thing. That's a great approach and it will likely have players lining up to play with him. But he needs to learn that sometimes it's okay and even necessary to be a little selfish. He just needs to know when to do it.

 

[trojanfan12]

Ball's handle is fine. It's not filthy by any means but its effective enough, especially considering he's not much of an athlete. He's kind of slow but he sees the floor well enough to where he can anticipate where a defender is going and then react. But if he gets a guy that Ds him up, he's got little chance of beating them off dribble. He just doesn't have the burst like a Kyrie or Dame (or really most PGs...he's really slow)

Agree. To me it's the difference between quickness and speed. When he gets going (coast to coast, driving from the perimeter) he's pretty fast. But he's not real quick, which makes it tough to beat guys off the dribble. Most of his drives to the basket will be the result of good spacing than just straight up beating guys.

 

[flyerhawk]

Agree. It's something he's working on. The coaching staff and his teammates are telling him to be more aggressive. He's getting a little better at it, but he's very inconsistent with it.



Yeah, his job is to move the ball, not necessarily get all of the assists. I don't think he lacks handles or confidence. I think he's doing his job, but he needs to learn that, as you say, there are some times when he needs to "command the offense."

His nature is to get the ball moving and let his teammates do their thing. That's a great approach and it will likely have players lining up to play with him. But he needs to learn that sometimes it's okay and even necessary to be a little selfish. He just needs to know when to do it.

I more or less agree. And honestly, I think that Simmons is a little too obsessed with pimping how amazeballs Jayson Tatum is and likes to throw shade at Ball and Fultz. Ball will likely get more aggressive as he becomes more comfortable with the game. That's one of the hardest things for rookie PGs to develop.

If I were a Laker fan my biggest concern would revolve around his lack of athleticism. It's a deal breaker for him but it is going to be a challenge for him throughout his career.

 

[trojanfan12]

Ball's handle is fine if he isn't being challenged. The moment someone gets in his grill he dishes.

As I said, that could be a confidence issue which can be addressed. But if he is going to be a good PG he can't treat the rock like a hot potato.

I understand what you're saying and agree to a point.

A lot of his dishing is by design. Luke doesn't want the ball in anyone's hands for very long. He actually had the Lakers practicing with an 18 second shot clock because that's the pace he wants. To do that, the ball has to move.

Having said that though, sometimes a pg needs to hold on to the ball a little longer than Lonzo tends to so he can see what is developing.

 

[flyerhawk]

I understand what you're saying and agree to a point.

A lot of his dishing is by design. Luke doesn't want the ball in anyone's hands for very long. He actually had the Lakers practicing with an 18 second shot clock because that's the pace he wants. To do that, the ball has to move.

Having said that though, sometimes a pg needs to hold on to the ball a little longer than Lonzo tends to so he can see what is developing.

Pretty much agree from what I've seen. IMO, it isn't even a big concern. The more minutes he gets the more confident he will get and he will hold onto the ball more when necessary.

 

[trojanfan12]

I more or less agree. And honestly, I think that Simmons is a little too obsessed with pimping how amazeballs Jayson Tatum is and likes to throw shade at Ball and Fultz. Ball will likely get more aggressive as he becomes more comfortable with the game. That's one of the hardest things for rookie PGs to develop.

If I were a Laker fan my biggest concern would revolve around his lack of athleticism. It's a deal breaker for him but it is going to be a challenge for him throughout his career.

I'm more worried about his shot than his athleticism. There have been and are, plenty of successful pg's that weren't/aren't very athletic. To me, the lack of athleticism just means he's always going to be something of a liability on defense. That can be made up for as long as the Lakers play good team defense..

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm more worried about his shot than his athleticism. There have been and are, plenty of successful pg's that weren't/aren't very athletic. To me, the lack of athleticism just means he's never going to be a something of a liability on defense. That can be made up for as long as the Lakers play good team defense..

His form is really weird. I saw him take one 3 last night where it looked like he was winding up like a pitcher does.

 

[Mecca]

This was my first game seeing Ball the whole time. They played him 40 minutes which is way too much. You cant coach out bad traits if you dont pull him aside and catch the little things.

Right now I dont see the skills that make sense for him as the #2 pick. Maybe top 10 but not ahead of players like Big M, Tatum, Fox, etc. For sure that shot has to be fixed, the ball spins sideways and not straight over.

I think Jason Kidd had the most fair and measured response on Lonzo today on First Take.

Lonzo is a rookie.

Lonzo is overhyped.

Lonzo doesn't play hard for 48 mins.

But, Lonzo has a skill set that most NBA players don't...

He actually makes guys around him better.

The foundation is there. He has to put in the work.

 

[Mecca]

I'm more worried about his shot than his athleticism. There have been and are, plenty of successful pg's that weren't/aren't very athletic. To me, the lack of athleticism just means he's never going to be a something of a liability on defense. That can be made up for as long as the Lakers play good team defense..

Nash, Billups, Conley....etc

 

[trojanfan12]

His form is really weird. I saw him take one 3 last night where it looked like he was winding up like a pitcher does.

lol That's actually the best description I've seen of his shooting motion.

Dodgers could have used him in game 7.

 

[LogicMan]

I think that Simmons is a little too obsessed with pimping how amazeballs Jayson Tatum is and likes to throw shade at Ball and Fultz.

And this is why I cannot trust anything Bill Simmons says. When a homer like me thinks simmons is a homer he then has zero credibility

 

[trojanfan12]

And this is why I cannot trust anything Bill Simmons says. When a homer like me thinks simmons is a homer he then has zero credibility

Yeah, it's funny. Simmons isn't necessarily wrong about some of what he says...but he doesn't have much objectivity which hurts his credibility. I don't know if he tries to say stuff that's over the top to try and get attention or what, but it makes it hard to take him seriously.

 

[LogicMan]

Yeah, it's funny. Simmons isn't necessarily wrong about some of what he says...but he doesn't have much objectivity which hurts his credibility. I don't know if he tries to say stuff that's over the top to try and get attention or what, but it makes it hard to take him seriously.

It just makes no sense. Thats why I like the White Mamba. he gives you a straight reaction and he is more critical of Ainge than everyone else around him.

 

[trojanfan12]

It just makes no sense. Thats why I like the White Mamba. he gives you a straight reaction and he is more critical of Ainge than everyone else around him.

Love The White Mamba. He's the Celtics version of Mad Dog Madsen. lol

Agree about him though. He gives his honest opinion, even when it's negative. He does it in an entertaining way too.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, it's funny. Simmons isn't necessarily wrong about some of what he says...but he doesn't have much objectivity which hurts his credibility. I don't know if he tries to say stuff that's over the top to try and get attention or what, but it makes it hard to take him seriously.

I think Simmons is enjoyable to read/listen to. He wears his homerdom on his sleeve and his employees at The Ringer are perfectly comfortable calling him out on it. And you really can't view him as objective. But he absolutely loves basketball and can provide a lot of great insight unless the Celtics are involved.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think Simmons is enjoyable to read/listen to. He wears his homerdom on his sleeve and his employees at The Ringer are perfectly comfortable calling him out on it. And you really can't view him as objective. But he absolutely loves basketball and can provide a lot of great insight unless the Celtics are involved.

Yeah, to be fair to him, I've heard him interviewed a couple of times where he has basically admitted that he's a homer.

Still don't care for him, but at least he admits to his homerism.

 

[LogicMan]

Agree about him though. He gives his honest opinion, even when it's negative. He does it in an entertaining way too.

Yeah he is a goof ball but he actually has some really cool insights. I like his play by play because he backs up videos and shows what they did wrong on any set play. I think the dude will coach some day