the middle ground on Dez

[tw1st3d]

2014 Cap hit 11,773,000 Dead Money is to cut would be 41,681,000
2015 Cap hit 27,773,000 Dead money to cut would be 19,908,000
2016 Cap hit 17,635,000 Dead money to cut would be 11,635,000
2017 Cap hit 21,500,000 Dead Money to cut would be 5,000,000

 

[snookdad]

I dont see Dez's back as a major issue.

I only have 2 major problems with Dez.
The main one ( because I am so ready to fix this cap situation and stop being a .500 team that has little to no wiggle room in the offseason without fucking up the future even longer)
The contract he is going to get. And haven't even seen it yet. But even if you guess the low ball figure. That's too many on a .500 team making mega contracts.

2 he's immature. I saw nothing last year to make me think that will change. I keep hearing passion but nothing more disrespectful to the team, to the fans, or to the sport than to walk off the field on your team mates.

I could throw a 3rd one in there ... but it kinda goes with both those two. Is he going to be able to run more than a handful of routes this year? All that "passion" should maybe be focused on that.

Your concerns are legit I however do believe Dez has progressed as a person and as a football player. I love to point at Chris Carter as the poster child for a guy needing to change his life...Carter was cut i know and that fueled change in him. On the other hand Dez's problems aren't nearly as alarming as Chris's and to his credit he has been problem free for at least 2 off-seasons that w/o question points to a pattern of growth.

As for as his route running goes again he has gotten a lot better and should be acknowledged. there isn't one infallible player on this team Dez can certainly be criticized for his aforementioned flaws. How many games has his issues cost this team who knows; one thing I'm certain of is Romo has been known to have some problems like bone headed INT's, having a noodle arm, and Partying and or golfing when football should have been his highest priority. In closing Dez deserves his contract so we have to trust JJ to get the best deal for this team while trying to manage our cap.

 

[tw1st3d]

Your concerns are legit I however do believe Dez has progressed as a person and as a football player. I love to point at Chris Carter as the poster child for a guy needing to change his life...Carter was cut i know and that fueled change in him. On the other hand Dez's problems aren't nearly as alarming as Chris's and to his credit he has been problem free for at least 2 off-seasons that w/o question points to a pattern of growth.

As for as his route running goes again he has gotten a lot better and should be acknowledged. there isn't one infallible player on this team Dez can certainly be criticized for his aforementioned flaws. How many games has his issues cost this team who knows; one thing I'm certain of is Romo has been known to have some problems like bone headed INT's, having a noodle arm, and Partying and or golfing when football should have been his highest priority. In closing Dez deserves his contract so we have to trust JJ to get the best deal for this team while trying to manage our cap.

Dez hasn't been in any trouble off the field true. He also constantly has team security member at all times. To keep him out of trouble.
A grown man serious about the sport shouldn't need those safeguards in place. Does Calvin Johnson? Fitz, Marshall, Andre Johnson? Has to be a question mark coming with his new contract. Do those safeguards stay in place? If not EVERYONE should be worried.

Can't compare Romo to Dez either. With Romo's contract restructured over and over .... He basically had the advantage on the Cowboys. Extend him and restructure that final year .... Or go full out rebuild mode.

Dez doesn't have that leverage. He's never been restructured.

I would give him the 12 a year contract .. Though I dont think he earned that yet ... it would be in hopes that he keeps getting better.

If he wanted more I'd just TAG him ... Next year and the next ..... it would be cheaper

 

[tw1st3d]

actually to tell you the truth ..... I would tag him reguardless

Take the safe guards off him ... as well as the security .....

Leave it to him to show he doesn't need them in place before handing him that big contract .... and if he fucks up he only lowers his going price. If he doesn't .... it takes away alot of the worries

I remember ALOT of guys 2 years ago ... we HAVE to resign Spencer Key word HAVE TOO

Every last one of them is now happy as fuck we didn't give him that huge contract.

 

[tw1st3d]

BTW just for numbers purposes

The cost to franchise Dez would be 12.3 million ....... So I would give no contract higher than that

 

[Manster7588]

actually to tell you the truth ..... I would tag him reguardless

Take the safe guards off him ... as well as the security .....

Leave it to him to show he doesn't need them in place before handing him that big contract .... and if he fucks up he only lowers his going price. If he doesn't .... it takes away alot of the worries

I remember ALOT of guys 2 years ago ... we HAVE to resign Spencer Key word HAVE TOO

Every last one of them is now happy as fuck we didn't give him that huge contract.

In truth tagging him only pushes the question of him playing full out after the big money back a year. He either plays for a contact in 14 or 15.

 

[tw1st3d]

In truth tagging him only pushes the question of him playing full out after the big money back a year. He either plays for a contact in 14 or 15.

Then he lowers his value .... on his own .... If he isn't playing full out each and every year .... Why would you want to give him a contract?

If that's all he is doing .... that means when the contract is signed ... He quits giving full effort

 

[tw1st3d]

That tag actually gives the team leverage and should be used at such.

Case in point Spencer.

Look Dez we can tag .. Next year and the after ... cheaper than what you want yearly.... Look over there at Spencer ... He lost his chance cause he wanted the big money take 8-9 million long term .... or risk the same happening to you ..... and if you dont want to give 100% ..... The entire league sees it and good luck on a team taking a chance on you for big money after that

Is what it is .... If it's used as it was meant to be

 

[Manster7588]

That tag actually gives the team leverage and should be used at such.

Case in point Spencer.

Look Dez we can tag .. Next year and the after ... cheaper than what you want yearly.... Look over there at Spencer ... He lost his chance cause he wanted the big money take 8-9 million long term .... or risk the same happening to you ..... and if you dont want to give 100% ..... The entire league sees it and good luck on a team taking a chance on you for big money after that

Is what it is .... If it's used as it was meant to be

We can carry this argument for days. If a player plays his ass off in the final year of his current deal just to get a contract, he is very likely to do the same while he's franchised. Of we franchise Dez and he plays light's out is he guaranteed to play that way after he signs a new deal. Look back at T.O. He behaved here up until Jerry ripped up their multi-single year deal and gave T.O. A 3 year contact. The day he got this deal the old T.O. returned. There is no way of knowing who just playing for a contract and who playing for the love of the game.

 

[jarntt]

2014 Cap hit 11,773,000 Dead Money is to cut would be 41,681,000
2015 Cap hit 27,773,000 Dead money to cut would be 19,908,000
2016 Cap hit 17,635,000 Dead money to cut would be 11,635,000
2017 Cap hit 21,500,000 Dead Money to cut would be 5,000,000

Think those are off. Add up the dead money and it comes to over $19M if cut after the 2016 season. So it would cost more to cut him than keep him. First opportunity to cut him seems to be after the 2016 season

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

It will be awful hard to cut a 2 time defending Superbowl Champion:rollseyes:

 

[jarntt]

It will be awful hard to cut a 2 time defending Superbowl Champion:rollseyes:

I like the sound of that better than a 37 year old QB coming off his 3rd back surgery!!!

 

[tw1st3d]

Think those are off. Add up the dead money and it comes to over $19M if cut after the 2016 season. So it would cost more to cut him than keep him. First opportunity to cut him seems to be after the 2016 season

Nope they are correct. ( All post June 1st cuts)

Now if we flat out cut him next year before June 1st you would be correct ... at which point he would cost us 37.4 million to cut vs a 27.7 cap hit to keep on the roster.

 

[tw1st3d]

Oh aand before someone takes me wrong .. I dont think we cut him next year .... I think a designated post june 1st in 2016 is very likely though.

UNLESS and this is what scares me ......
Tony gets a 17 million base salary next year which added with his restructure money is what makes his cap hit balloon. I can very well see him restructured YET AGAIN to make room for Dez .... Then you see Tony here well past 2016 ........ and thus why I said in my earlier post ... we remain in cap hell for several more years.
And that's exactly what it's going to take happening to resign Dez.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Sucky position you guys are in. As I said before it almost seems like you get punished for drafting well. Do you just let a star walk because of the cap. As a team you try to accumulate talent. It just sucks to make a decision to let someone go. But in fairness I guess all teams have to deal with it. Philly is in the same exact shoes Dallas is in 12 months from now... especially if Foles keeps up his play.

The next thing that sucks is there are multi "billionaire owners" and "100s of millions owners". The billionaire owners are probably in favor of a HUGE cap increase whiles the poorer teams are blessed the cap is at 135,000,000. THey get to roll out bad-mediocre or good teams and rake in shit loads of cash. The "poorer" owner will fight for a low cap. I dont think Jerry or Paul Allen would lose any sleep if the cap doubled to $270 million next year.

 

[tw1st3d]

Sucky position you guys are in. As I said before it almost seems like you get punished for drafting well. Do you just let a star walk because of the cap. As a team you try to accumulate talent. It just sucks to make a decision to let someone go. But in fairness I guess all teams have to deal with it. Philly is in the same exact shoes Dallas is in 12 months from now... especially if Foles keeps up his play.

The next thing that sucks is there are multi "billionaire owners" and "100s of millions owners". The billionaire owners are probably in favor of a HUGE cap increase whiles the poorer teams are blessed the cap is at 135,000,000. THey get to roll out bad-mediocre or good teams and rake in shit loads of cash. The "poorer" owner will fight for a low cap. I dont think Jerry or Paul Allen would lose any sleep if the cap doubled to $270 million next year.

I agree with most of that ..... But I do think their are some billionaire owner that are money hungry and are glad there is a cap in place as well. Look at the Atlanta Braves in baseball ... they have the money to pull a Yankees and try to buy a team but they never have ..... early 90s until recently ( we know longer have the Richmond Braves) had the best farm system in baseball.

What separates greats franchises from .500 and worse franchises is knowing when and who to let go of.

Cowboys have been in what is considered cap hell since Wade came to town. Not Wades fault it's just been that fucking long. And since that time we have been the restructure kings of the NFL. Over paying guys.... extending guys over the age of 30 at inflated prices. And it's gotten us one playoff win.

I don't care how much I like a player ..... One playoff win says it all to me. It's time to bite the bullet .....
We wont ..... Cause that's not Jerry. And the hardest thing about being a Cowboys fan .... is Jerry .... If a player sells Jerseys ..... He's not going anywhere. Which is why Dez wont.

And as long as he has players that do well in fantasy football ... That help him sell those Jerseys .... They really aren't going anywhere.

Pats have done the best job of doing it right. Look at who they have let go of over BB's years.
Willie McGinest .... all time playoff sack leader
Seymour ..... still had many years left in him
Randy Moss .... the moment he said he wanted a big contract
Wes Welker ..... the moment he wanted a big contract.

and in the process they have been to more Superbowls, won more Superbowls, and are in the playoffs every year. Most years ( like last) when they aren't in the Superbowl .... They are contenders to be

Oh forgot they also let go of Samuels

 

[jarntt]

Nope they are correct. ( All post June 1st cuts)

Now if we flat out cut him next year before June 1st you would be correct ... at which point he would cost us 37.4 million to cut vs a 27.7 cap hit to keep on the roster.

No dead money is the same pre or post June 1st. Only matters which year it hits.

The numbers are off by a little if you add up all the unallocated money in that year and all subsequent years it doesn't equal what they have as total dead on that line. If you look at overthecap.com it show a higher number too. If it post june 1st it's actually a MUCH lower hit in that year as most of the hit moves back another year.

 

[jarntt]

From what I see If we cut him post 6/1 the 2016 cap hit is $9.1M ($5M + $1.6M + $2.5M). And the 2017 cap hit is $10M. If we cut him before 6/1 the full $19.1M hits 2016.

 

[Sharkinva]

From what I see If we cut him post 6/1 the 2016 cap hit is $9.1M ($5M + $1.6M + $2.5M). And the 2017 cap hit is $10M. If we cut him before 6/1 the full $19.1M hits 2016.

The problem is, to resign Dez this year you are almost deadlocked into restructuring Romo next year thus pushing up the june first hit in 2016. And that doesnt factor in the LT you will also need to resign. With an Estimated $1.5 in cap space in 2015, after you resign Dez, some one is going to have to restructure or be cut to get under the cap for 2015, so realistically you cant even begin to speculate on 2016 until then.

 

[jarntt]

The problem is, to resign Dez this year you are almost deadlocked into restructuring Romo next year thus pushing up the june first hit in 2016. And that doesnt factor in the LT you will also need to resign. With an Estimated $1.5 in cap space in 2015, after you resign Dez, some one is going to have to restructure or be cut to get under the cap for 2015, so realistically you cant even begin to speculate on 2016 until then.

I'm not talking about what I think will happen. If romo is healthy he will be restructured again. I've been saying for years how dumb that is, but I also know it will happen. So rerun the numbers with Romo restructured, Free gone (or another big pay cut) and Dez and Smith both signed and both with a contract back loaded. I have no concern about whether we will be able to sign them. I'm more worried about what it does to the rest of the team left around them.