The Master Vent Thread-Negativity Within-Enter at Your Own Risk

[shopson67]

Is that what the hell is he's protesting about??? I'm not even sure/don't care anymore...


It's easy to blame the third party candidates for her loss, but who says those voters would've voted for her??? I also don't buy that argument about Hillary winning Cali anyway, so why vote...I live in NY, Hillary was winning this state no matter what. Should I have not voted because she was going to win here anyway? Of course not, I still went out and did my part...

The third party candidates were far from being Trump alternates, much closer to Hillary.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

The third party candidates were far from being Trump alternates, much closer to Hillary.

Not sure about that one...I'm one of those Independents both sides wanted badly. I voted 3rd party but if I only had the two choices, I probably would've gone with Trump(but glad I didn't have to)...Wouldn't have mattered though, she still wins NY...

 

[shopson67]

There were a lot of Bernie supporters that wouldn't support Hillary, which is simply being butthurt.

I just don't get voting 3rd party. You know they can't possibly win; it's the same as staying home.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

There were a lot of Bernie supporters that wouldn't support Hillary, which is simply being butthurt.

I just don't get voting 3rd party. You know they can't possibly win; it's the same as staying home.

Its actually not...First, how can voting for the person you believe in be wrong? Second, The more support a 3rd party gets(if they have a good candidate) the more funding they get for the next election. This country needs a REAL 3rd party to challenge the status quo already...We almost had one in the 90's with Perot...Then they decided to run Pat Buchannan in 2000, that was the end of them...

 

[shopson67]

Its actually not...First, how can voting for the person you believe in be wrong? Second, The more support a 3rd party gets(if they have a good candidate) the more funding they get for the next election. This country needs a REAL 3rd party to challenge the status quo already...We almost had one in the 90's with Perot...Then they decided to run Pat Buchannan in 2000, that was the end of them...

Voting for a third party candidate you believe in sounds great, but signifies nothing. Perot carried almost 19% of the vote, but not a single state. That 19% was just over half of what losing Bush got.

The problem with third party candidates is that they typically aren't legitimate candidates. The two main third party candidates this year (Johnson and Stein) didn't seem like serious candidates to me. McMullin got serious support in Utah, but nowhere else. Now, if Bernie had decided to run independant, he could've made some serious noise, but the outcome would likely have been the same; pulling votes away from Hillary and Trump winning.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Voting for a third party candidate you believe in sounds great, but signifies nothing. Perot carried almost 19% of the vote, but not a single state. That 19% was just over half of what losing Bush got.

The problem with third party candidates is that they typically aren't legitimate candidates. The two main third party candidates this year (Johnson and Stein) didn't seem like serious candidates to me. McMullin got serious support in Utah, but nowhere else. Now, if Bernie had decided to run independant, he could've made some serious noise, but the outcome would likely have been the same; pulling votes away from Hillary and Trump winning.

It would take a few elections before for a 3rd party to make a real difference, but no reason not to vote for them if you believe in them...

Like I mentioned earlier, Perot and his Reform party had some momentum towards becoming a real force, until they nominated Buchannan in 2000, which desroyed everything Perot built in the previous 8 years. They had a better candidate(John Hagelin), but went with the wrong guy... I think even Bernie would've struggled as a 3rd party candidate over the whole 3rd party "stigma"...

 

[Vitamike]

She was never going to get Obama's turnout. You have to look back farther for your comparison numbers. A young black candidate is not close to being a good comparison for a 70 year old white woman who is a career politician.

She didn't need to get the Obama turnout, I said near and I was being cautious with that.

Clinton just needed to do slightly better than she did. Trump actually won some of the swing states with less Rep voter turnout than Romney had, and I highly doubt Trump was able to swing very many (if any of significance) Dem votes his way in those key battle states.

 

[Rambunctious]

The Rams won the game yesterday...Why do I feel like they lost?

 

[Vitamike]

The Rams won the game yesterday...Why do I feel like they lost?

Could be all the bitching and moaning going on around here bunc...

 

[shopson67]

The Rams won the game yesterday...Why do I feel like they lost?

Because Fisher used that victory as a vote of confidence in Keenum?

 

[Rambunctious]

Could be all the bitching and moaning going on around here bunc...

Yeah I know Vita. But to be honest if you read some of the bitching and moaning angry posts I have written but didn't post I would probably be banned for life.

 

[UVA_Guy81]

The third party candidates were far from being Trump alternates, much closer to Hillary.

Jill Stein definitely was closer to Hillary. Gary Johnson was pretty much in the middle. Evan McMullin was more conservative, so he was far closer to Trump than Hillary.

Not sure about that one...I'm one of those Independents both sides wanted badly. I voted 3rd party but if I only had the two choices, I probably would've gone with Trump(but glad I didn't have to)...Wouldn't have mattered though, she still wins NY...

I was the same way. I hated both of them and refused to vote for either one (voted for McMullin). But my vote wouldn't have mattered since Hillary won my state anyways. And like you, if I could only vote for one or the other, I would've gone with Trump.

 

[shopson67]

Not trying to stir up this crap again, but which of his policies swayed you to Trump? He has revealed little other than stuff he really can't deliver on (the wall, deporting all undeclared immigrants, not allowing any Muslims to immigrate, put Hillary in jail, repeal the Offordable Care act, and "drain the swamp"). Several of those he's backed off on already and he's still months from taking over.

 

[UVA_Guy81]

Not trying to stir up this crap again, but which of his policies swayed you to Trump? He has revealed little other than stuff he really can't deliver on (the wall, deporting all undeclared immigrants, not allowing any Muslims to immigrate, put Hillary in jail, repeal the Offordable Care act, and "drain the swamp"). Several of those he's backed off on already and he's still months from taking over.

Are you talking to me or LTRF?

 

[Vitamike]

Not trying to stir up this crap again, but which of his policies swayed you to Trump? He has revealed little other than stuff he really can't deliver on (the wall, deporting all undeclared immigrants, not allowing any Muslims to immigrate, put Hillary in jail, repeal the Offordable Care act, and "drain the swamp"). Several of those he's backed off on already and he's still months from taking over.

Sorry Shops, that all focuses on the free news coverage the media was so happy to oblige President Elect Trump on rather than any of Trumps many actual proposed policies.

DONALD J. TRUMP POLICIES

TBT - President Elect Trump in my view is more of an actual 'Third Party Candidate' than a Republican Candidate.

His policies are not far off of some of the Conservative Dems' agendas and are far off of the Conservative Reps' agendas.

 

[Rambunctious]

Trump is a populist, he seeks out what the people want and finds a way to give it to them or at least he promises to try. For many folks that have been left behind by globalism for example, his promise to do these things is enough for them to sign on to his agenda. Whether they believe him or not they know what they have now is not working in their lives and so to them, anything else is better.

Even a promise to do the impossible.

We are $20 trillion in debt. We don't hear much of it because most media types have no Idea what to do about it. They ignore it like the plague but one day we won't be able to ignore it and that is when the shit will hit the fan. I predict it will bring about a war the likes we have never seen before. Our creditors will not understand when we say sorry we don't have it.
So whatever the side of the political isle you are on you had better hope that this businessman can work his magic and turn this ship around or we will not be happy over the mess we will leave to our children.

 

[shopson67]

Sorry Shops, that all focuses on the free news coverage the media was so happy to oblige President Elect Trump on rather than any of Trumps many actual proposed policies.

DONALD J. TRUMP POLICIES

TBT - President Elect Trump in my view is more of an actual 'Third Party Candidate' than a Republican Candidate.

His policies are not far off of some of the Conservative Dems' agendas and are far off of the Conservative Reps' agendas.

How do you know what his policies are? Did he ever actually state them? Other than stuff like "I'm going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with "something amazing"?

 

[shopson67]

Trump is a populist, he seeks out what the people want and finds a way to give it to them or at least he promises to try. For many folks that have been left behind by globalism for example, his promise to do these things is enough for them to sign on to his agenda. Whether they believe him or not they know what they have now is not working in their lives and so to them, anything else is better.

Even a promise to do the impossible.

We are $20 trillion in debt. We don't hear much of it because most media types have no Idea what to do about it. They ignore it like the plague but one day we won't be able to ignore it and that is when the shit will hit the fan. I predict it will bring about a war the likes we have never seen before. Our creditors will not understand when we say sorry we don't have it.
So whatever the side of the political isle you are on you had better hope that this businessman can work his magic and turn this ship around or we will not be happy over the mess we will leave to our children.

Backing down the defense budget and raising taxes on the rich will make quite a dent in that debt. It hasn't been that long since Clinton had a functioning surplus annually. Stop cutting taxes without cutting plans that need those tax dollars and stop waging unwinnable, unending wars would be a great start.

Trump can't bring jobs and factories back from the third world. He can make it more expensive for those goods to re-enter the US, but it will take HUGE embargos to even make those companies start to think about moving some production back to the US. Even IF they did move some jobs back, they aren't going to be good-paying jobs.

 

[Rambunctious]

Backing down the defense budget and raising taxes on the rich will make quite a dent in that debt. It hasn't been that long since Clinton had a functioning surplus annually. Stop cutting taxes without cutting plans that need those tax dollars and stop waging unwinnable, unending wars would be a great start.

Trump can't bring jobs and factories back from the third world. He can make it more expensive for those goods to re-enter the US, but it will take HUGE embargos to even make those companies start to think about moving some production back to the US. Even IF they did move some jobs back, they aren't going to be good-paying jobs.

If I remember correctly Clinton ended up cutting the business tax and income tax for the middle class. The great surplus under Clinton was due to a little thing called Nasdaq and the tech sector. The internet was a new thing so were cell phones.
Reagan cut taxes; and revenue to the federal government increased. The government has two ways to raise revenue...raise taxes and fees or set the business world on fire by cutting taxes and regulation there by increasing taxable profits.
I agree with you that these unwinnable endless wars are a huge mistake. We always seem to get into this fix when our military has been downsized. I believe there is something to the idea that a strong military and a commander and chief that is willing to use it means you will not have to use it.
Trump can help to create more jobs and make sure they stay here by launching a business friendly environment. Make it costly to move off shore and profitable to stay....simple.
But an expert I am not...so take it for what it's worth.

 

[shopson67]

If I remember correctly Clinton ended up cutting the business tax and income tax for the middle class. The great surplus under Clinton was due to a little thing called Nasdaq and the tech sector. The internet was a new thing so were cell phones.
Reagan cut taxes; and revenue to the federal government increased. The government has two ways to raise revenue...raise taxes and fees or set the business world on fire by cutting taxes and regulation there by increasing taxable profits.
I agree with you that these unwinnable endless wars are a huge mistake. We always seem to get into this fix when our military has been downsized. I believe there is something to the idea that a strong military and a commander and chief that is willing to use it means you will not have to use it.
Trump can help to create more jobs and make sure they stay here by launching a business friendly environment. Make it costly to move off shore and profitable to stay....simple.
But an expert I am not...so take it for what it's worth.

When was our military downsized? The budget increases every year.

Making it costly to move off shore will impair US businesses that already made that move, so the overall impact may be negative. Plus, a lot of factory jobs stateside have been lost to automation and innovation, not the Far East.