The Master Vent Thread-Negativity Within-Enter at Your Own Risk

[zeke2829]

Didn't he tear his ACL??

I'm just making a comment!
I'll say it again, Great qbs stay know how to stay upright!.....Period!.... End of story!

 

[Vitamike]

I'm just making a comment!
I'll say it again, Great qbs stay know how to stay upright!.....Period!.... End of story!

Just nothing really backs that up.

If greatness had anything to do with staying up right, Bo Jackson would be in the NFL HOF!

Sure not a QB, but you get the point.

 

[zeke2829]

Just nothing really backs that up.

If greatness had anything to do with staying up right, Bo Jackson would be in the NFL HOF!

Sure not a QB, but you get the point.

What do you mean, nothing to back that up? Don't you watch football?

Their great play actually keeps them out of trouble. Look at Tom Brady, quick release, great accuracy, 2 step drop! The defense doesn't even come close to him! Hell, he has had a make shift o-line and he still gets the ball to his receiver! Tom Brady rarely holds onto the ball long! That's why he stays healthy!

 

[Vitamike]

What do you mean, nothing to back that up? Don't you watch football?

Their great play actually keeps them out of trouble. Look at Tom Brady, quick release, great accuracy, 2 step drop! The defense doesn't even come close to him! Hell, he has had a make shift o-line and he still gets the ball to his receiver! Tom Brady rarely holds onto the ball long! That's why he stays healthy!

I'm wont argue with you about Tom Terrific, even though he had that early season ending knee injury in 2008 or so.

But a list of one is not much to back it up.

What else you got?

And don't go back too far, the NFL is changing regarding QB injuries and that was my comment.

 

[zeke2829]

Quick release qbs you ask?

In todays NFL, nobody is quicker than Peyton Manning! In fact when he was younger his snap to release time was 2.33 seconds! He was rarely sacked! But he is slower now! Tom Brady's time is still 2.5 seconds! Both of these guys had a pretty injury free career! I'm sure you'll look it up! There are others, Drew Brees, Tony Romo, Matt Stafford to name a few! The quickest release of all time was probably recorded by Dan Marino.

Here is an interesting article, I hope that you will take the time to read it!

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrBT6KfNZRWTEsAMwhXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByNXQ0NThjBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM1BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1452582432/RO=10/RU=http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24588578/quick-draw/RK=0/RS=eX0zzilXt7vQirMWXkwpUHMBALQ-

Here is a quote written by Jack Del Rio

"Well, we prefer to go against guys that are slow decision-makers and have a real slow delivery," Broncos interim head coach and defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio said with a sarcastic laugh. I'm always stressing what's most important is smart and accurate. A guy might run a 4.2 (in the 40) and jump 10 feet high. But is he smart and accurate? Can he make quick decisions and put the ball where he wants to put it, on time?"

Here is quote by Tony Dungy

"These guys, you can't overestimate how smart they are," said Tony Dungy, an NFL analyst for NBC and former NFL coach. "The whole process of reading and figuring out the coverage and deciding where to go with the ball, they do it so much faster than most quarterbacks in the NFL. They're all processing the same information and the same reads, but they're doing it at warp speed so they don't have to hold the ball."

 

[zeke2829]

On the other hand when you talk about often injured QBs, eh hem.....AKA Sammy Bradford! Its pretty easy to figure out what his problem is! Not only does he make slow and poor decisions, but he is about as mobile as a salted down snail in quicksand!

where's Coug..........

 

[Vitamike]

Quick release qbs you ask?

In todays NFL, nobody is quicker than Peyton Manning! In fact when he was younger his snap to release time was 2.33 seconds! He was rarely sacked! But he is slower now! Tom Brady's time is still 2.5 seconds! Both of these guys had a pretty injury free career! I'm sure you'll look it up! There are others, Drew Brees, Tony Romo, Matt Stafford to name a few! The quickest release of all time was probably recorded by Dan Marino.

Here is an interesting article, I hope that you will take the time to read it!

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrBT6KfNZRWTEsAMwhXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByNXQ0NThjBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM1BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1452582432/RO=10/RU=http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24588578/quick-draw/RK=0/RS=eX0zzilXt7vQirMWXkwpUHMBALQ-

Here is a quote written by Jack Del Rio

"Well, we prefer to go against guys that are slow decision-makers and have a real slow delivery," Broncos interim head coach and defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio said with a sarcastic laugh. I'm always stressing what's most important is smart and accurate. A guy might run a 4.2 (in the 40) and jump 10 feet high. But is he smart and accurate? Can he make quick decisions and put the ball where he wants to put it, on time?"

Here is quote by Tony Dungy

"These guys, you can't overestimate how smart they are," said Tony Dungy, an NFL analyst for NBC and former NFL coach. "The whole process of reading and figuring out the coverage and deciding where to go with the ball, they do it so much faster than most quarterbacks in the NFL. They're all processing the same information and the same reads, but they're doing it at warp speed so they don't have to hold the ball."

No, I said nothing of the sort, and quick release by a sub par QB is a quick interception, by a great QB as you've listed, of course it's deadly.

But zeke, you said GREAT QB's. I asked for a list, and you gave me Tom Terrific!

I conceded TT, even though he had an early season ending knee injury somewhere around the 2008.

Alls I'm saying is great QB's are not immune to injuries. A few games a year is reasonable, and Sam proved that last year, his ACL was not a factor as many worried about.

Now, there are many that are more worried about other aspects other than his injury potential, like you and Smed and many others for example. But that's a different topic. Under the Fisher 'wanting' Sam back under center, the season ending injury to the ACL happening in 3 consecutive years is no longer a factor.

 

[Smed55]

No, I said nothing of the sort, and quick release by a sub par QB is a quick interception, by a great QB as you've listed, of course it's deadly.

But zeke, you said GREAT QB's. I asked for a list, and you gave me Tom Terrific!

I conceded TT, even though he had an early season ending knee injury somewhere around the 2008.

Alls I'm saying is great QB's are not immune to injuries. A few games a year is reasonable, and Sam proved that last year, his ACL was not a factor as many worried about.



Now, there are many that are more worried about other aspects other than his injury potential, like you and Smed and many others for example. But that's a different topic. Under the Fisher 'wanting' Sam back under center, the season ending injury to the ACL happening in 3 consecutive years is no longer a factor.

We will see, I wouldn't necessarily say one injury free year means it's no longer a factor? He's done it a couple of times, played, injured, played, injured, this year was a "played" year. Let's see if he can play two full seasons in a row?

 

[zeke2829]

No, I said nothing of the sort, and quick release by a sub par QB is a quick interception, by a great QB as you've listed, of course it's deadly.

Sub par qbs don't know how to utilize a quick release! AKA Sammy Bradford! I'm trying to explain to you that often injured qbs probably hold onto the ball too long!! Resulting in an injury! Did you not read my article??

But zeke, you said GREAT QB's. I asked for a list, and you gave me Tom Terrific!

Now I know you didn't read my post at all! I gave you Peyton Manning, Tony Romo, Matt Stafford, Drew Brees and Dan Marino as well! These qbs all have something in common, a quick release!

I conceded TT, even though he had an early season ending knee injury somewhere around the 2008.

Alls I'm saying is great QB's are not immune to injuries. A few games a year is reasonable, and Sam proved that last year, his ACL was not a factor as many worried about.

LOL......Why do you continue to throw him into this argument? Ok then, he has played in 63 out of 96 games in his 6 seasons as a pro! Oh yah he's had 4 injuries! He's missed 33 games!! Maybe just maybe if he got rid of the ball a second or 2 sooner these injuries would not take place. Right there is proof enough to show your argument is weak!

Now, there are many that are more worried about other aspects other than his injury potential, like you and Smed and many others for example. But that's a different topic. Under the Fisher 'wanting' Sam back under center, the season ending injury to the ACL happening in 3 consecutive years is no longer a factor


I really don't understand you sometimes!!
I never mentioned the "S" word until YOU brought it up! Its easy for me to tell that your passion still runs deep! My comment was strictly about GREAT QBs staying healthy and you know dam well that your Cream Puff doesn't fit in that category! Why do you continue to bring Bradford into these conversations?

 

[ozarkram]

 

[Retroram52]

Well Vita, in the last five years, there aren't that many great QBs who were not injured but in the modern era I would think Dan Marino, the Manning brothers, Mark Rypien, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, and say John Elway would make that list described by Zeke. Whether that list delineates a distinction between themselves and Sammy's injury record is a matter of argument.

 

[zeke2829]

No, I said nothing of the sort, and quick release by a sub par QB is a quick interception, by a great QB as you've listed, of course it's deadly.

But zeke, you said GREAT QB's. I asked for a list, and you gave me Tom Terrific!

I conceded TT, even though he had an early season ending knee injury somewhere around the 2008.

Alls I'm saying is great QB's are not immune to injuries. A few games a year is reasonable, and Sam proved that last year, his ACL was not a factor as many worried about.

Now, there are many that are more worried about other aspects other than his injury potential, like you and Smed and many others for example. But that's a different topic. Under the Fisher 'wanting' Sam back under center, the season ending injury to the ACL happening in 3 consecutive years is no longer a factor.

here you go again

Fast releases for Peyton Manning, Tom Brady have propelled their NFL careers

 

[Vitamike]

We will see, I wouldn't necessarily say one injury free year means it's no longer a factor?

I didn't say that either, I said ...

the season ending injury to the ACL happening in 3 consecutive years is no longer a factor.

 

[Smed55]

I didn't say that either, I said ...

Ya, I get the not in 3 straight years part, but doesn't mean his injury history is not a factor

 

[Vitamike]

Sub par qbs don't know how to utilize a quick release! AKA Sammy Bradford! I'm trying to explain to you that often injured qbs probably hold onto the ball too long!! Resulting in an injury! Did you not read my article??

I clicked on it and it was a bad link.

Now I know you didn't read my post at all!

I actually did read your post zeke. TBT, after you said "I'm sure you'll look it up" I went straight to your link, and when I came back to your post I picked up reading after the link and just missed your list.

I gave you Peyton Manning, Tony Romo, Matt Stafford, Drew Brees and Dan Marino as well! These qbs all have something in common, a quick release!

In the last 7 years, save Marino who hasn't played in this millennium, Manning, Romo, Stafford & Brady have all been on the IR, only Brees has not.

LOL......Why do you continue to throw him into this argument? Ok then, he has played in 63 out of 96 games in his 6 seasons as a pro! Oh yah he's had 4 injuries! He's missed 33 games!! Maybe just maybe if he got rid of the ball a second or 2 sooner these injuries would not take place. Right there is proof enough to show your argument is weak!

This whole convo was engendered from my reply to Smed about the 'Why' Fisher would want Sam back. I'm not throwing him in there, he was in there to begin with.

I really don't understand you sometimes!!
I never mentioned the "S" word until YOU brought it up! Its easy for me to tell that your passion still runs deep! My comment was strictly about GREAT QBs staying healthy and you know dam well that your Cream Puff doesn't fit in that category! Why do you continue to bring Bradford into these conversations?

LOL, he was already in the convo, you replied to the injury and compared him to great QB's. You are as guilty as anyone for bringing it up if that's the case.

Now maybe you didn't read my post, because I clearly said...

This has nothing to do with my opinion nor is it something I want, but you asked the question why.

Again, this is not what I want, nor what I believe is right.

So give me a break zeke!

 

[Vitamike]

Ya, I get the not in 3 straight years part, but doesn't mean his injury history is not a factor

The main part to factor for me is the fact that Fisher knew he would lose his job this year if he went with Sam this season and Sam was injured again and went on the IR for a 3rd. straight season. It was curtains for JF IMO.

As far as his injury history being a factor to both of us, I couldn't agree with you more! His injury history is a factor for me, for you. But my point is, neither of us are Jeff Fisher.

Jeff Fisher, IMO will lose his job next season if he doesn't get his team to the playoffs and he might need to get a win or two at that.

So, I just believe that Fisher still sees Sam as a viable option, because he has nothing to lose at this point and has always, just as much as Coug, has thought very highly of how Sam fits in his offense.

Again, this is not what I want, nor what I believe is right. It's just why I think Fisher would consider Sam as an option.

 

[SJ76]

What do you mean, nothing to back that up? Don't you watch football?

Their great play actually keeps them out of trouble. Look at Tom Brady, quick release, great accuracy, 2 step drop! The defense doesn't even come close to him! Hell, he has had a make shift o-line and he still gets the ball to his receiver! Tom Brady rarely holds onto the ball long! That's why he stays healthy!

I think what Zeke is trying to say here is awareness. Pocket awareness, knowing when to run, knowing when to throw it away, knowing how to lead/communicate with your offense - Oline and WRs. I think this is an "X factor" and what makes a QB good/great and separates themselves from average QBs.

Sam Bradford has always been slow to read defenses and check's down to a shorter pass a lot. Under pressure he is as helpless as a deer in headlights - meaning he can't take a busted play and do ANYTHING positive with it like a mobile QB can or like a QB who has good awareness can. Good/great QBs find ways to make plays and you don't see them holding onto the ball too long either.

 

[Smed55]

The main part to factor for me is the fact that Fisher knew he would lose his job this year if he went with Sam this season and Sam was injured again and went on the IR for a 3rd. straight season. It was curtains for JF IMO.

As far as his injury history being a factor to both of us, I couldn't agree with you more! His injury history is a factor for me, for you. But my point is, neither of us are Jeff Fisher.

Jeff Fisher, IMO will lose his job next season if he doesn't get his team to the playoffs and he might need to get a win or two at that.

So, I just believe that Fisher still sees Sam as a viable option, because he has nothing to lose at this point and has always, just as much as Coug, has thought very highly of how Sam fits in his offense.

Again, this is not what I want, nor what I believe is right. It's just why I think Fisher would consider Sam as an option.

You may be right about Fisher, but even I don't think he would take a chance on him again, he's already taken to many chances with him and it didn't work? Sammie and his agent will want to much money for what Fisher will be asking out of his QB.
Hell, he got what he wanted out of Keenum! hand the ball off to Gurley and don't turn the ball over, Keenum doing that would be a lot cheaper than Sammie doing it!

If Fisher is realistic he will also see that we are more than a QB away from doing anything, people are complainaning that Lewis has no control over his players play, well Fisher doesn't either? On top of the fact that I believe our schedule is tougher next year than it was this year?

 

[Smed55]

Here you go Coug, the final QBR rankings for 2015. I'm sure you will dispute it, but QBR takes into consideration, a QB's oline, WR's, drops, spikes, throw aways, downs, field position, etc. So similar to your sacred PFF stats. The biggest difference is QBR is based on what actually happened, not like PFF which is a bunch of "if this or that happened, you could possibly expect this to happen"

1 Carson Palmer, ARI 101.3 2.6 -15.8 12.2 100.2 634 122.2 71.0 82.1
2 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 74.7 1.5 -8.5 11.9 79.7 562 94.8 49.5 76.9
3 Drew Brees, NO 105.8 1.5 -17.2 4.0 94.1 742 121.0 61.2 75.5
4 Russell Wilson, SEA 85.4 17.9 -19.4 0.1 83.9 677 108.9 54.3 74.9
5 Andy Dalton, CIN 71.2 1.1 -10.2 3.7 65.7 510 78.6 37.4 73.1
6 Kirk Cousins, WSH 77.4 1.8 -11.9 3.2 70.5 656 93.8 40.9 70.1
7 Tyrod Taylor, BUF 56.0 21.4 -15.9 -2.8 58.7 566 76.6 31.0 67.8
8 Alex Smith, KC 52.8 21.2 -16.7 5.4 62.8 651 85.3 32.8 66.5
9 Cam Newton, CAR 70.4 17.5 -16.6 1.8 73.2 707 91.6 34.6 66.1
10 Aaron Rodgers, GB 62.9 17.0 -19.9 15.7 75.7 772 97.1 34.9 64.9
RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
11 Tom Brady, NE 83.1 2.8 -20.4 6.9 72.5 760 94.4 33.1 64.4
12 Ryan Fitzpatrick, NYJ 59.7 11.8 -8.4 3.8 66.9 689 83.9 28.3 63.6
13 Teddy Bridgewater, MIN 55.9 11.4 -21.2 10.2 56.3 590 70.1 22.5 62.7
14 Matthew Stafford, DET 72.6 6.8 -19.0 6.4 66.8 730 86.5 27.7 62.6
15 Matt Ryan, ATL 88.8 -1.7 -18.9 3.7 72.0 740 85.8 26.1 61.8
16 Marcus Mariota, TEN 42.7 11.2 -18.8 8.0 43.0 495 56.2 16.3 61.0
17 Jay Cutler, CHI 63.8 8.1 -20.3 7.0 58.7 605 68.0 19.3 60.7
18 Eli Manning, NYG 74.8 -2.1 -15.6 8.3 65.3 730 81.6 22.8 60.5
19 Brian Hoyer, HOU 41.8 2.6 -11.9 0.2 32.9 445 48.6 12.7 59.6
20 Philip Rivers, SD 86.2 -0.4 -20.4 4.7 70.1 812 88.2 22.8 59.4
RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
21 Jameis Winston, TB 52.4 12.0 -13.8 3.7 54.4 698 74.2 17.9 58.6
22 Josh McCown, CLE 39.9 1.9 -15.7 3.8 29.9 386 35.6 4.4 53.9
23 Derek Carr, OAK 57.8 0.6 -17.6 4.8 45.6 704 55.2 -1.6 49.2
24 Brock Osweiler, DEN 32.2 1.6 -13.7 0.8 20.9 343 26.4 -1.2 48.8
25 Andrew Luck, IND 15.9 8.5 -5.1 -0.7 18.7 368 27.0 -2.6 47.6
26 Colin Kaepernick, SF 14.7 8.5 -7.9 1.4 16.8 347 25.1 -2.9 47.1
27 Blake Bortles, JAX 60.5 9.1 -33.1 5.1 41.5 763 53.4 -8.1 46.4
28 Peyton Manning, DEN 27.4 0.0 -8.7 2.6 21.3 386 25.4 -5.7 45.0
29 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 54.6 -1.3 -24.9 2.2 30.6 729 44.0 -14.8 43.1
30 Blaine Gabbert, SF 16.0 10.7 -13.5 3.0 16.2 365 21.4 -8.0 42.6
RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR
31 Sam Bradford, PHI 38.2 -3.0 -13.9 6.8 28.0 652 36.8 -15.8 41.8
32 Joe Flacco, BAL 34.1 -2.6 -12.0 1.9 21.4 478 25.6 -13.0 40.9
33 Nick Foles, STL 11.5 -0.4 -9.1 2.4 4.4 403 7.5 -25.0 30.0

 

[Smed55]

I'm sure Coug will disagree, but this list looks a lot more accurate than the PFF list. I would say most of these QBs on this list had a better year than Bradford, and it's reflected in this list, whereas the PFF list has Sammie ahead of everyone but 8 QB's, that's very unrealistic!