The Master Vent Thread-Negativity Within-Enter at Your Own Risk

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

They provide by way of good money to 40 percent of the league to be exact.

I'd say that is significant LTRF!

The only reason stats like that are useful to a team would be players tendencies, that's all...It has NOTHING to do with player rankings. Earlier in this thread, Smed explained why the "rankings" are ridiculous...

Player tendencies, good(logical)...Player Rankings, bad(illogical)...

 

[27mtrcougar]

Pro Football Focus provides, by way of good money, stats to 40 percent of the league to be exact.

I'd say that's significant and meaningful LTRF!

That's why I checked it out, because you constantly hear people (TV, radio, analyst) talking about it and using it. I don't see how you can really argue with that list 1 through 20 it seems right on based on their performance this year.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

That's why I checked it out, because you constantly hear people (TV, radio, analyst) talking about it and using it. I don't see how you can really argue with that list 1 through 20 it seems right on based on their performance this year.

Funny, I've been watching football probably longer than you've been alive and I've NEVER heard them mention it once as far as player rankings. not ONCE. Please, show me/play me all these radio/tv clips where it was mentioned in that context...

 

[Vitamike]

The only reason stats like that are useful to a team would be players tendencies, that's all...It has NOTHING to do with player rankings. Earlier in this thread, Smed explained why the "rankings" are ridiculous...

Player tendencies, good(logical)...Player Rankings, bad(illogical)...

Well this is a far cry from, now what did you say?

Meaningless.

The stats that we all get to see that the league 'customers' get is a pittance in comparison, so who really knows what value is available to them, one might argue that player rankings has a great value in Free Agency and accessing franchise tag players...

Thus MtCoug's point and why this sites 'evaluations' are not so ridiculous.

 

[ozarkram]

Funny, I've been watching football probably longer than you've been alive and I've NEVER heard them mention it once as far as player rankings. not ONCE. Please, show me/play me all these radio/tv clips where it was mentioned in that context...

I am curious do you feel 27 is lying. Or just inflating the importance of this sports site. Vita stated it is used by 40% of the NFL teams. Just curious.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

I am curious do you feel 27 is lying. Or just inflating the importance of this sports site. Vita stated it is used by 40% of the NFL teams. Just curious.

He's inflating the importance of useless stats. The teams use SPECIALLY TAILORED player tendency statistics!!! NOT the player rankings. To an NFL team, the rankings are absolutely useless. Who cares what a site ranks a player? They care what they guy does at his position. What % of the time does he throw short, long, middle. What % of the time does he throw into coverage, double coverage, triple coverage. How often does he play action, what does a guy do % after the play action, ect...Same goes with each postion.

 

[ozarkram]

He's inflating the importance of useless stats. The teams use SPECIALLY TAILORED player tendency statistics!!! NOT the player rankings. To an NFL team, the rankings are absolutely useless. Who cares what a site ranks a player? They care what they guy does at his position. What % of the time does he throw short, long, middle. What % of the time does he throw into coverage, double coverage, triple coverage. How often does he play action, what does a guy do % after the play action, ect...Same goes with each postion.

Thank you. I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[27mtrcougar]

Funny, I've been watching football probably longer than you've been alive and I've NEVER heard them mention it once as far as player rankings. not ONCE. Please, show me/play me all these radio/tv clips where it was mentioned in that context...

Sometimes when they refer to it they say just say PPF. I think I heard them say that many times but really didn't think to much about it, or thought what are they talking about. Then I finally decided to check it out.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Well this is a far cry from, now what did you say?

Meaningless.

The stats that we all get to see that the league 'customers' get is a pittance in comparison, so who really knows what value is available to them, one might argue that player rankings has a great value in Free Agency and accessing franchise tag players...

Thus MtCoug's point and why this sites 'evaluations' are not so ridiculous.

No, its not. For the purposes he is using them, they are Meaningless!!! You of all people should be able to see through what he's trying to do here.

Like I said, where does the NFL rate Bradford in total QBR? What is the OFFICIAL stat the NFL uses to judge this position? Until anyone out there can say the NFL is officially using another method, this argument is over, I win...

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Rainbow all you want Ozark...What is Brafords official QBR? where is he ranked NFL wise? you know, using the REAL stats....

I'm waiting...

 

[27mtrcougar]

He's inflating the importance of useless stats. The teams use SPECIALLY TAILORED player tendency statistics!!! NOT the player rankings. To an NFL team, the rankings are absolutely useless. Who cares what a site ranks a player? They care what they guy does at his position. What % of the time does he throw short, long, middle. What % of the time does he throw into coverage, double coverage, triple coverage. How often does he play action, what does a guy do % after the play action, ect...Same goes with each postion.

I believe they are ranked by their performance on the field?? They actually watch game film and break down every play. I don't think its just ranking a player based on someone's opinion. That's exactly the link Zeke posted a couple pages back. That was just an opinion. There is a lot that goes into these "rankings" and I believe the NFL pays attention to it.

 

[ozarkram]

Rainbow all you want Ozark...What is Brafords official QBR? where is he ranked NFL wise? you know, using the REAL stats....

I'm waiting...

I will be honest with you I don't know. And could care less. I gave you a rainbow for you winning a contest that never existed. I thought it was a conversation. Had I know it was a contest I would have dressed. As far as your demands that wont work with me.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

I believe they are ranked by their performance on the field?? They actually watch game film and break down every play. I don't think its just ranking a player based on someone's opinion. That's exactly the link Zeke posted a couple pages back. That was just an opinion. There is a lot that goes into these "rankings" and I believe the NFL pays attention to it.

Again, what is the OFFICIAL stat the NFL uses? I don't give a damn if they watch every play while wearing a clown outfit, eating lo mein, listening to Chubby Checker and hopping on one leg. Unless you tell me the NFL uses what you are using as their OFFICIAL QBR stat....As Bill Murray once said "It Just Doesn't Matter..."

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

I will be honest with you I don't know. And could care less. I gave you a rainbow for you winning a contest that never existed. I thought it was a conversation. Had I know it was a contest I would have dressed. As far as your demands that wont work with me.

I didn't mean it like that man All the sudden I had three people coming at me for just stating an opinion and asking about official stats...As we all know, stats can be used in many different ways and we don't know what the real "agenda" is behind those numbers. That's why I'm against "rankings" from sites like that...

 

[27mtrcougar]

Rainbow all you want Ozark...What is Brafords official QBR? where is he ranked NFL wise? you know, using the REAL stats....

I'm waiting...

And how do you know the NFL only looks at that? Do you really think you can simply look at a QB rating and know the whole story. I guareentee you when a QB throws a pick but it's the WR's fault like it goes off their hands or the DB steals it out of the WR's hands (it's happened to Bradford many times the season) the GM's, coaches don't count that against the QB. But it shows up bad on their QB rating if that's all you look at. Or maybe the LF tackle completely misses his block and it's the quarterbacks arm and causes a pic again that's the Olines fault but will count against the QB rating.

 

[ozarkram]

I didn't mean it like that man All the sudden I had three people coming at me for just stating an opinion and asking about official stats...As we all know, stats can be used in many different ways and we don't know what the real "agenda" is behind those numbers. That's why I'm against "rankings" from sites like that...

I get it my friend. Me personally you could ask what I had for lunch yesterday and I couldn't tell you much less where I read or heard something. I am not a stats guy but am envious of those that are. Your passionate we need that.

 

[Vitamike]

Funny, I've been watching football probably longer than you've been alive and I've NEVER heard them mention it once as far as player rankings. not ONCE. Please, show me/play me all these radio/tv clips where it was mentioned in that context...

All due respect brother but I think you are caught up in the bashing on the Couger love for Sam. Doesn't change some facts in the world outside of the Rams SportsHoopla boards.

No, its not. For the purposes he is using them, they are Meaningless!!! You of all people should be able to see through what he's trying to do here.

Like I said, where does the NFL rate Bradford in total QBR? What is the OFFICIAL stat the NFL uses to judge this position? Until anyone out there can say the NFL is officially using another method, this argument is over, I win...

Do you really believe that NFL teams care about what they feed the public?

You say 'you of all people', and as I read this position from you I've been thinking the same thing.

Do you really think that 'rankings' from a credible source (At least it seems you've conceded that much) would'nt be used in negotiating a contract for a Free Agent?

Honestly I've got to believe this is a huge reason these 40 percent'rs even subscribe to such a site for info. It's got to come down to dollars and cents and that has to be the biggest ROI.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

And how do you know the NFL only looks at that? Do you really think you can simply look at a QB rating and know the whole story. I guareentee you when a QB throws a pick but it's the WR's fault like it goes off their hands or the DB steals it out of the WR's hands (it's happened to Bradford many times the season) the GM's, coaches don't count that against the QB. But it shows up bad on their QB rating if that's all you look at. Or maybe the LF tackle completely misses his block and it's the quarterbacks arm and causes a pic again that's the Olines fault but will count against the QB rating.

So how are they going to judge if the INT is the QB's fault or the WR's fault? Again, this is why these kinds of stats are complete bullshit...If the QB throws slightly behind or in front of the WR, whose fault is that? Again, too many judgement calls there. You might say the INTs aren't Brafords fault, others would say the opposite. So who is right? The NFL says, you threw the INT so it counts against you(as it should)

As of right now, the QBR the NFL uses seems to be the most fair system of judgement.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

All due respect brother but I think you are caught up in the bashing on the Couger love for Sam. Doesn't change some facts in the world outside of the Rams SportsHoopla boards.



Do you really believe that NFL teams care about what they feed the public?

You say 'you of all people', and as I read this position from you I've been thinking the same thing.

Do you really think that 'rankings' from a credible source (At least it seems you've conceded that much) would be used in negotiating a contract for a Free Agent?

Honestly I've got to believe this is a huge reason these 40 percent'rs even subscribe to such a site for info. It's got to come down to dollars and cents and that has to be the biggest ROI.

Again, there is a HUGE difference between a site like that doing a great job at compiling players tendencies, But when they start making up these kinds of BS "ratings" that are based on more judgement than actual stats, that's a problem. Again, how are you going to truly judge if an INT is the fault of the WR or the QB?

I read up on the company since we started talking about this and like I said before...They provide "specially tailored info to a handful of teams" their words, not mine. aka they provide player tendencies...

This has nothing to do with bashing Cougar or Bradford, but I do ask for honesty. And this Sam is ranked 12th BS is completely dishonest, which is why I had to say something.

If anyone can prove to me/show me the NFL bases ANYTHING on these "rankings" this site puts out, I'll admit I'm wrong...Not the tendencies, the meaningless rankings...

 

[Vitamike]

All the sudden I had three people coming at me for just stating an opinion

I get it and it's a lot like what been going on with Coug.

He believes in his positions and gets hammered on this site even when he is in right or not too far off as some crazy nut job just because he has a different opinion.

I'm not sure what this site is providing because it is suppose to be massive, but in reality if it were all inclusive, I couldn't imagine why the other 60 percent isn't using them.

Bottom line the NFL does not have the corner on NFL stats, there have been many organizations that have pushed the envelope.

Take if you will the organizations that saw a 'new' stat of importance back in the day called 'sacks'. Had the NFL been the 'all knowing' when Deac was playing we all would know who the all time Sac leader is!!