The latest on B1G expansion

[TigerBait1971]

I could see Mizzou bolting for the BIG....they don't really fit in the SEC.

 

[Cane]

I could see Mizzou bolting for the BIG....they don't really fit in the SEC.

not there for the fit, they are there for the $$$

 

[Shanemansj13]

Why don't you see UNC leaving? And why do you think UVa would go to the B1G just because VT is goes?

I thought they wouldnt leave w/o Duke. And i dont know how big of rivalry VT Virginia is but wouldnt they want to leave too??

 

[starbigd]

stability, academic prestige, research partnerships with other AAU members, more $$$, no Longhorn network, better basketball programs .. I can't think of a good reason why Kansas WOULDN'T want to leave for the B1G .. as I've said before, there are very few programs in the ACC or Big12 that wouldn't leave for the B1G if given the opportunity.

Why do you think the LHN bothers Kansas? You do realize Kansas makes more money off their tier 3 rights than just about any other program out there, right?

WHY do some of you think FSU wants to go to the B12? BECAUSE they can have their own network, AND still make 20+ mill off a TV contract!

Not sure I understand the hate for the LHN.

 

[ForkEmBucky]

I could see Mizzou bolting for the BIG....they don't really fit in the SEC.

not there for the fit, they are there for the $$$

They wanted the B1G first, but I don't think they really need to bolt. If 20 teams is the end game, the SEC can go to 20 without losing their southern identity. A lot of Oklahomans and Missourians consider themselves southern, culturally.

 

[uncfan103]

I thought they wouldnt leave w/o Duke. And i dont know how big of rivalry VT Virginia is but wouldnt they want to leave too??

Why wouldnt they leave without Duke, is there a good reason? Virginia probably wants out, but I dont think VT going to the B1G would mean that Virginia would be able to follow. I actually think its the opposite, I doubt the B1G would want to add two teams from the same state. Adding Virginia Tech would probably mean you don't have to worry about UVa landing in the B1G.

 

[ForkEmBucky]

Well. For 16 teams they wouldn't want both UVA and VT. If 20 or 24 is the end game though.... I don't see a point in pussyfooting around it anymore. Well...unless he's still hoping to force Notre Dame in.

 

[sparko]

oh yeah -- i forgot one other reason that kansas would want to leave for the B1G .. EQUALITY .. and though they keep their tier 3 rights in the big12, don't start trying to make a claim that Texas and OU don't call the shots in that conference.

As far as UNC goes -- there are plenty of very intelligent people at that university -- I guarantee they have an exit strategy if the shit hits the fan .. and no -- they're not gonna get left behind and out of the $$$ for Duke's sake. Would they like to bring them where ever they go? Absolutely, but they'll hardly be in a position to make demands if the time ever gets there.

As far as UVA-VT rivalry .. VT wasn't in the ACC until 2003 and these teams still played every season. That rivalry would be preserved, regardless of where either of those universities live.

 

[sparko]

If TV sets and money is the ONLY REAL driving force, I see the Virginia and North Carolina (UNC and NC State) being split between the B1G and SEC (one from each state in each conference) .. but with Maryland already in the B1G, that may leave a Virginia team out to dry -- but I think the B1G takes other things into account other than money (AAU status, SOME semblance of geography, etc)

The SEC cares about $$$, first and foremost, and increasing academic reputation. I think they also care about "culture" to a certain degree. Not to say that they wouldn't take a cultural outlier (like UVA) but I doubt they'd be at the top of their list. It's VERY obvious that "football prestige" is not at the top of their list though -- or WVU would be in the SEC instead of Mizzou

 

[starbigd]

oh yeah -- i forgot one other reason that kansas would want to leave for the B1G .. EQUALITY .. and though they keep their tier 3 rights in the big12, don't start trying to make a claim that Texas and OU don't call the shots in that conference.

As far as UNC goes -- there are plenty of very intelligent people at that university -- I guarantee they have an exit strategy if the shit hits the fan .. and no -- they're not gonna get left behind and out of the $$$ for Duke's sake. Would they like to bring them where ever they go? Absolutely, but they'll hardly be in a position to make demands if the time ever gets there.

As far as UVA-VT rivalry .. VT wasn't in the ACC until 2003 and these teams still played every season. That rivalry would be preserved, regardless of where either of those universities live.

LOL......Kansas has NEVER been in a conference other elite programs didn't run......not sure that has any real meaning for them. I think it's purely a money decision. And getting them to give up money they're generating off of tier 3 rights currently is going to be a HARD sell.

 

[ForkEmBucky]

You know what just occurred to me? If 20 to 24 teams is Delaney's end game. I could see the following...

+ Maryland, Rutgers, VT, UVA, UNC, Kansas, Georgia Tech, Clemson

Why? Well if he's really interested in cutting into the SEC's footprint....why not? Like VT, they aren't AAU members but they are both working at becoming top 20 public schools. They would be a project for the presidents and their CIC organization, but it wouldn't kill them. The politics of academia do come into play here, even if Spartan Nation doesn't think so.

 

[ForkEmBucky]

LOL......Kansas has NEVER been in a conference other elite programs didn't run......not sure that has any real meaning for them. I think it's purely a money decision. And getting them to give up money they're generating off of tier 3 rights currently is going to be a HARD sell.

The B1G renegotiates their tv contract in 2016. The Big 12 won't compare. Kansas would make more $$ with the B1G. Just like everyone else. The SEC and B1G run the show in expansion.

 

[starbigd]

The B1G renegotiates their tv contract in 2016. The Big 12 won't compare. Kansas would make more $$ with the B1G. Just like everyone else. The SEC and B1G run the show in expansion.

That assumes the B12 doesn't expand

In general I would agree, but a lot can happen by 2016

 

[sparko]

The only schools that would jump ship to the Big12, before all other options were exhausted, would be FSU and Clemson (and they'd prefer to be in the SEC). Aside from those two, the Big12 will get the scraps that the Big10 and SEC leave (which will be some good options).

I think the Big12's best option, especially if it lost Kansas, would be to round off to 16 first, with an eastern division (containing WVU and all new members) and a West Division with the remaining 8:

Their BEST options for an eastern:
WVU
Pitt
Louisville
Cincinnati
VT/UVA
UNC/NC State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU

I'd say that UNC, UVA, and Pitt are real long shots
If the SEC and/or B1G decides to expand past 16 .. pickins'll be slim

 

[ForkEmBucky]

That assumes the B12 doesn't expand

In general I would agree, but a lot can happen by 2016

How is the Big 12 going to expand in such a way that they can compete with the B1G? The old B1G was already lucrative. The Upper Midwest stronghold is more TV sets than Texas, which is the only real bread winner currently in the Big 12...and the SEC has already cut into Texas. Now the B1G is cornering NYC and probably DC. They're eyeballing the state of North Carolina and the Atlanta metro area, plus Kansas City(the largest market in the Big 12 outside of Texas) as their next targets.

Tell me why VT, NC, UVA, GT, and Kansas wouldn't want to be a part of that juggernaut? They would. That puts the Big 12 in the backseat, and as soon as the SEC sees that, I'm not sure why they wouldn't start poaching Big 12 and ACC schools as well. I think they would.

 

[starbigd]

How is the Big 12 going to expand in such a way that they can compete with the B1G? The old B1G was already lucrative. The Upper Midwest stronghold is more TV sets than Texas, which is the only real bread winner currently in the Big 12...and the SEC has already cut into Texas. Now the B1G is cornering NYC and probably DC. They're eyeballing the state of North Carolina and the Atlanta metro area, plus Kansas City(the largest market in the Big 12 outside of Texas) as their next targets.

Tell me why VT, NC, UVA, GT, and Kansas wouldn't want to be a part of that juggernaut? They would. That puts the Big 12 in the backseat, and as soon as the SEC sees that, I'm not sure why they wouldn't start poaching Big 12 and ACC schools as well. I think they would.

This assumes that none of those teams joins the B12. Let's say for argument's sake VT, GT, Clemson and FSU join the B12.

The B12 already makes 20 mill per school. That contract gets renegotiated, PLUS third tier money.

NONE of those schools are just going to up and jump ship overnight because the B1G makes them an offer. They will need a valid reason to leave, and with a new contract in place it would be very difficult to go. The GOR is a VERY strong deterrent as well.

 

[BigAppleBadger]

If the SEC and B1G go to 20 teams, then the B12 will need to look to the MWC or CUSA teams in its footprint (eg, SMU) for teams. Maybe Louisville and Cincinnati if the SEC doesn't want them (the B1G won't). The B12 only got WVU because the B1G and SEC didn't want them (no TV markets and academics).

 

[starbigd]

If the SEC and B1G go to 20 teams, then the B12 will need to look to the MWC or CUSA teams in its footprint (eg, SMU) for teams. Maybe Louisville and Cincinnati if the SEC doesn't want them (the B1G won't). The B12 only got WVU because the B1G and SEC didn't want them (no TV markets and academics).

The B12 didn't even want WVU, they only took them out of necessity.

 

[Red_Alert]

I thought UT was trying to corner the coal market?

 

[sparko]

The B12 didn't even want WVU, they only took them out of necessity.

And it goes the other way too .. No team is going to voluntarily go to the Big 12 unless the writing is on the wall and it's out of necessity. There are reasons why but some of you guys choose to think that the only thing that matters in all of this is money. If that were the case, FSU would ALREADY be heading to the Big 12 (not to say that they won't eventually).

It's the 2nd or 3rd option for pretty much all super-attractive targets (on the East Coast). Louisville, Cincinnati, and BYU are probably the exceptions.

If FSU ends up in the Big 12, it's because they already asked the SEC and they said no. Same for Clemson.