The greatest sports taboo...the openly gay player

[apachef4]

Scooters are kinda gay. Just sayin.

True. That muscle-tee is VERY hetero, though...

 

[Comeds]

The gay thing never really bothered me. Having known some gay people, some from a young age, I just never thought anything bad about it. I do not really think its a choice and even if it was I still wouldn't care. We all have to find or try to find what makes us happy in life and as long and what two consenting adults do is really none of my business.

 

[SLY]

True. That muscle-tee is VERY hetero, though...

Its a sleeveless tee god damnit!

Women like it

 

[apachef4]

Its a sleeveless tee god damnit!

Women like it

I see, now you're masking the questionable nature of your shirt by being "openly straight". Well played. :p

 

[pixburgher66]

I'm not heated one way or another in this debate. I have gay friends, and they're the funnest people I know. I don't think if someone on my teams were to come out I'd stop supporting them or feel any different about them (it may crush some minor dreams I have...), and I'd certainly still wear their jersey or what not. However, to comment on jstew's point, if someone felt they HAD to come out, that it was effecting them emotionally or that they felt like a fake or whichever, then they have every right to say it. But, I do see your point. In most sports it's team first, and if it's not hurting you emotionally or whatnot, why bring that attention upon yourself and the team? Either way, it's not my place to judge anyone's decision.

 

[SLY]

I see, now you're masking the questionable nature of your shirt by being "openly straight". Well played. :p

Damn you! Twisting everything...

 

[SLY]

I'm not heated one way or another in this debate. I have gay friends, and they're the funnest people I know. I don't think if someone on my teams were to come out I'd stop supporting them or feel any different about them (it may crush some minor dreams I have...), and I'd certainly still wear their jersey or what not. However, to comment on jstew's point, if someone felt they HAD to come out, that it was effecting them emotionally or that they felt like a fake or whichever, then they have every right to say it. But, I do see your point. In most sports it's team first, and if it's not hurting you emotionally or whatnot, why bring that attention upon yourself and the team? Either way, it's not my place to judge anyone's decision.

naughty girl :p

 

[awaz]

Deep today eh?

My issue with homosexuals is the percentage of them that do seem to be 'attention whores'. And i dislike/hate 'attention whores' of all kinds. White, Black, Gay, Straight, Guy, Girl, Human, Animal, hate all of them. If you want to go about your lifestyle in the 'different' way, go ahead. But don't run around proclaiming it to the world and start trying to force everyone to believe what you do is right or ok. Because to some people, it's not right or ok. It's the same thing that makes me so frustrated with religion. Let people believe what they want to believe, don't try to force your beliefs on them. If someone wants to believe there are 74 Gods, each in charge of something else, I don't care, as long as they don't tell me i'm stupid or insignificant because i don't agree with them. Homosexuals make me a little nervous, it's true, but the ones that make me nervous are the ones that flaunt it. The ones that walk around in their super tight fitting clothes, talking with a lisp, wearing flamboyant colors. They make me nervous because they are different. It is the same with black people. One of my best friends is black, but he doesn't walk around with his pants around his knees, gold chains hanging around his neck, and band-aids on his face. Black people that walk around like that, make me nervous and i would prefer to not be around them. Same goes for flamboyant gays, i would prefer not to be around them.

And i think this is how it would relate to a sports locker room. If an athlete were to come out and be flamboyant, which i highly doubt, due to the 'macho' personality it takes to be an athlete, there would be a problem. People would be uncomfortable being in the locker room with them because they are shoving their beliefs in their teammates faces. If a simple, normal, every day type of guy came out and was just like, 'hey guys, i actually prefer males', i don't think there would be a huge fiasco. The media will probably try to make it a fiasco, because one athlete calling another athlete an asshole is a fiasco to them (Cromartie/Brady), but in the locker room, i don't think it'd be a fiasco. Sure some guys would get a little uncomfortable when the significant other of the gay guy came around and it would take some getting used to, but all new relationships take some getting used to for the friends of those involved.

My experience with homosexuals mostly involves lesbians, as my place of work during school hired like 3 lesbian couples (one of the managers was a lesbian). And they are really the same as everyone else was. Normal people, that just happened to like the same sex. I had no problem with them at all. Like i said, the one's i have problems with are the ones flaunting or forcing their beliefs. And of course the ones that know gay people make other people uncomfortable, and take advantage of that for laughs.

PDA falls into attention whore category by the way. A quick peck, holding hands, are fine, but tongue fighting and the like, are right out. Dont wanna see homosexuals do it, dont wanna see a guy and a girl do it. Save that for your own private time.

 

[Darkstone42]

According to a climate survey done at my school, the only minority sect that felt unsafe on my campus was the LGBT community. Those were the only professors who felt their jobs would be at risk, the only students who felt a threat of physical violence. Why?

It's bogus. No one should have to feel that way. Right now in this country, being anything except heterosexual is the most frightening and difficult thing you can be (according to the numbers, and you all know how I feel about the numbers). And that considers all environments and situations.

Now we are isolating the single most "macho" environment. Given that no one comes out, I'd say it's fairly safe to assume that no one feels more threatened than a gay male athlete. Doesn't that kind of defeat the ideal of team sports? Shouldn't a team be supportive of each other? Why this hostility?

Again, it's bogus. No one should have to feel that way. No one should feel like he or she has to lie about who he or she is in order to keep a job, help a team, and especially avoid physical harm, death threats, insults, etc. There's more to keeping that lie than just not "flaunting" their homosexuality, too. They can't slip. They can't make a wrong move. How difficult must it be to meticulously consider every word you say, every action you make, every expression? It's wrong to put someone through that, to make someone lie in order to survive.

Professional athletes, whether they want to be or not, are role models for our society. They need to accept the LGBT community, because if they do, a lot of this nation will follow. It's going to be terrible for that first person to come out, but someone needs to, and that person's team has to support it. It needs to happen.

Now, of course, this debate opens doors to a lot of other conversations, like social expectations (why is it discouraged for straight men to, for example, really enjoy musicals), job and school application forms (why is it necessary to ask for race and sex, when those things aren't determining factors in candidate qualification), etc. But I'll hold off on those.

 

[SLY]

lol awaz, good post... made me laugh at points, but all in all good stuff.

 

[SLY]

According to a climate survey done at my school, the only minority sect that felt unsafe on my campus was the LGBT community. Those were the only professors who felt their jobs would be at risk, the only students who felt a threat of physical violence. Why?

It's bogus. No one should have to feel that way. Right now in this country, being anything except heterosexual is the most frightening and difficult thing you can be (according to the numbers, and you all know how I feel about the numbers). And that considers all environments and situations.

Now we are isolating the single most "macho" environment. Given that no one comes out, I'd say it's fairly safe to assume that no one feels more threatened than a gay male athlete. Doesn't that kind of defeat the ideal of team sports? Shouldn't a team be supportive of each other? Why this hostility?

Again, it's bogus. No one should have to feel that way. No one should feel like he or she has to lie about who he or she is in order to keep a job, help a team, and especially avoid physical harm, death threats, insults, etc. There's more to keeping that lie than just not "flaunting" their homosexuality, too. They can't slip. They can't make a wrong move. How difficult must it be to meticulously consider every word you say, every action you make, every expression? It's wrong to put someone through that, to make someone lie in order to survive.

Professional athletes, whether they want to be or not, are role models for our society. They need to accept the LGBT community, because if they do, a lot of this nation will follow. It's going to be terrible for that first person to come out, but someone needs to, and that person's team has to support it. It needs to happen.

Now, of course, this debate opens doors to a lot of other conversations, like social expectations (why is it discouraged for straight men to, for example, really enjoy musicals), job and school application forms (why is it necessary to ask for race and sex, when those things aren't determining factors in candidate qualification), etc. But I'll hold off on those.

I for one enjoy some musicals, and am straighter than an arrow. And your second point there is wrong, race and sex definitely help determine a students qualification because this country is retarded and has affirmative action laws, and other laws to bring more "minorities" into their schools. Which I believe is really wrong. Whomever is qualified should make the cut, no school should have to meet a quota for whites, hispanics or blacks.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

This thread is gay.















































Sorry, but someone was gonna say it sooner or later.

 

[Darkstone42]

I for one enjoy some musicals, and am straighter than an arrow. And your second point there is wrong, race and sex definitely help determine a students qualification because this country is retarded and has affirmative action laws, and other laws to bring more "minorities" into their schools. Which I believe is really wrong. Whomever is qualified should make, no school should have to meet a quota for whites, hispanics or blacks.

That was kind of my point. I think affirmative action is discrimination, born as a necessity to combat others' discrimination, but would be unnecessary if those questions weren't on applications.

 

[elocomotive]

On another note, anyone else notice that the ads at the top of this thread are now all "Gay Personals"? I hope that's not just directed at me!

Lol. This comment totally reminded me off a scene from the Mind of the Marrried Man - a TV series I really liked, but didn't last long.

 

[devs30rko]

its not about if they should be allowed, or at least i don't think it is to the players.

its just the comfort level. its not the same as blacks being allowed to compete in the mlb.


the macho attitude is carried in varying degrees from sport to sport, however in recent times at least do not get exiled from their sport, but instead may just strike some of the other participants phobias.


so what. they can be gay. others can be macho and not like their being gay. you can't change the person. as long as they are allowed to compete it shouldn't be an issue.

and i know for a fact its not jsut the gays who get harrassed.


my sister played hockey for umass boston, a d3 school. in womens hockey you'll often find 50% of the team is gay. she and some of the other girls from the team i met were often legitimately HARASSED on how its wrong to be straight.

yeah. you read that right.

so they aren't always the victims, while they usually are, but the fact is you won't be able to change it through any laws or rules. only time and culture change, which can only occur naturally on its own will take away the stigmas of it all

 

[SLY]

That was kind of my point. I think affirmative action is discrimination, born as a necessity to combat others' discrimination, but would be unnecessary if those questions weren't on applications.

true.

 

[elocomotive]

so they aren't always the victims, while they usually are, but the fact is you won't be able to change it through any laws or rules. only time and culture change, which can only occur naturally on its own will take away the stigmas of it all

I disagree with you there. Sometimes society solves these problems on their own, but sometimes organizations and the government have to push to make it happen. Ref: The 1960s.

 

[puckhead]

In terms of being a fan, I couldn't give a shit. Like when Rob Halford came out. It took a moment to make the leather and studs connection and say "oooooh, that makes sense". Then listen to Defenders of the Faith again.

Having played organized hockey through my formative years, it would definitely be a difficult decision. The earliest taunts of opponents (and teammates alike) was calling them a fag, polesmoker, or whatever. Immature and insensitive, yes, but I'm sure that's how it is in any team sport as a teenager. that's a culture thing that may or may not change, but sports sure won't be the place to lead that change. For better or worse, part of being a teammate is falling into the pack mentality.

There is definitely risk among teammates, opponents and fans. Possibly an opportunity as well. There are a lot of gay hockey fans, both men and women. The first to come out could be a bit of a hero to them. as an example, Manny Malhotra is one of the first players of Indian descent (dot, not feather) to make it and stick in the NHL (no offense to Robin Bawa). There are a TON of Malhotra jerseys floating around Vancouver. You won't see that on another 3rd line player. Same thing with Jordin Tootoo and the first nations hockey fans.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

so they aren't always the victims, while they usually are, but the fact is you won't be able to change it through any laws or rules. only time and culture change, which can only occur naturally on its own will take away the stigmas of it all

I agree with you to some extent, but sometimes I think that laws and rules need to be the catalyst for these things.

Stealing eloco's example of the 1960s. It took the government to force integration on people, but then after a while (we'll say, after the forced generation moved on), everybody looked back and asked what the big deal was. Well, not everyone, but you'll always have the holdouts that will forever hate a group simply because of who they are.

Obviously there's no rule against gays playing in professional sports, but I think it's a result of laws being passed by governments to bring gays closer to having rights equal to everyone else that has made it more acceptable for people to be openly gay.

As the cultural shift then progresses further and further, there will come a time when it becomes no big deal.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

In terms of being a fan, I couldn't give a shit. Like when Rob Halford came out. It took a moment to make the leather and studs connection and say "oooooh, that makes sense". Then listen to Defenders of the Faith again.

That definitely made the lyrics to Hell Bent for Leather make a lot more sense too.