The draft, need and talent line up finally!

[broncosmitty]

I'm still not that happy we didn't draft a Safety. It should have happened. And I blame Mike Thomas for it.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Saving me a much longer-winded post, that hits the nail on the head.

You're entitled to whatever opinion you want. The thing with opinions, though, is that, while everyone is welcome to form whatever ones they want, opinions can still be off-base. Just because it's your opinion doesn't mean it's right.

The base-less derogatory nicknames (Lesuck, Sackus), imo, have no place coming from a "fan". Especially when attached to perfectly decent players. When it's a Dominic Raiola situation it's different because he's universally despised by the fan base. But when a player doesn't meet your All Pro standards you seem to single them out and trash them, and, (shocker) that crap fly none too well on a Detroit Lions fan site.

You and MikeD don't think he would have been drafted, that's fine, totally your opinion. What makes me curious, though, is how many combined years do you guys have in scouting to honestly make yourselves believe that you know better than the dozens of professionals involved in our draft process?

MikeD's boy Ryan Allen, two-time All American was passed on in all 7 rounds by all 32 teams, yet he was the better choice over one of only two punters drafted? The fact that only two punters were drafted and he wasn't one of them doesn't alter your thinking at all? I just don't get that line of thinking.

Yes, prior to seeing that we had him in for a visit, I had no idea who he was. But the reports were that we liked him and were likely to draft him, so I wasn't surprised at all. He's got a huge leg, has only been punting a few years (went to college as a kicker), and has drawn rave reviews from the kicking coach he only started working with before last season (the reason his average suddenly went way up; like I told rollingthndr, the internet is packed full of information, so you don't have to make something up to fill in your knowledge gaps and then sell yourself on it being true. The actual information is out there for anyone willing to look it up).

Calling that a "straight-up Millen pick" is what got me riled up, and then the Lesuck quip was enough for me to post that rant. It's those, combined with the other 6 or 7 negative comments sprinkled in to your first 6 or 7 posts you've made that gets to me. I just don't see what good all your complaining does? I've pointed this out to MikeD a couple of times, but he never responds when he's been had- you're powerless to make any changes to things you don't like about the Lions. Therefore all this bitching is totally useless, doesn't change a thing, just pisses off those of us who are actually interested in discussing Lions players beyond a quick "he's a punter and we drafted him so I hate him and now he sucks." kind of mentality...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'm still not that happy we didn't draft a Safety. It should have happened. And I blame Mike Thomas for it.

I wish we had drafted a safety too. Phillip Thomas is going to be a good player for a long time, imo. Too bad we gave up this year's 4th for Tahir Whitehead, I'd rather have Thomas by a mile.

I think we're good with our top 3- Delmas, Quin and Carey are all quality guys, but replacing Spievey/Silva/Johnson with Phillip Thomas (or another rookie safety) would have been a great move in my book.

Oh well, though. I suppose complaining about not upgrading our 4th safety isn't such a bad thing...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

(1) If a punter has been a 40 yard per punt guy all his career, then suddenly starts averaging 45, wouldn't you say something has changed? Or do you think this was an abberation?

I have no clue what changed. Maybe he turned a corner, maybe he finally figured out how to be successful as a punter. But the reason I questioned the pick is -- For 3 years, he was a very average punter and after one successful season -- Detroit spends a 5th round pick on him. It isn't as if he was the cream of the crop sitting on the board. Ryan Allen had 20 punts inside the 20 and 21 punts of 50 or more yards last year and averaged 48.0 yards per punt and 52 yards per punt in the Senior Bowl.

To tell you how few punters get drafted -- Allen was a unanimous all-american selection and 2 time Ray Guy Award winner as the best punter in the NCAA. He was signed as an UFA by New England.

(2) Just like there is more to playing DE than how many sacks one gets, there is more to punting than average yards per punt. Ever hear of hang time? Directional punting?

Of course. La Tech led the NCAA in net punting, so I'm guessing Ryan Allen had some hang time on his punts. As far as directional punting -- None of us have any idea how either are at this or any punter really, until you see them on the field.

All I am saying is -- The Lions spent a 5th round pick on a punter, who even by his own admission, was suprised to be drafted. It isn't as if they took him in the 7th round. They spent a 5th round pick on him, after trading away a pick at the top of the 5th to move down in the round.

I agree wholeheartedly that the Lions needed to improve at the punter position, but I question the guy who was picked. It is like the Lions front office tries to get too cute with some of their picks. If you are on the board to draft a punter -- are you going to take a 2 time Ray Guy award winner, who led the nation in yards per punt and net punting or do you take the guy who averaged 40 yards a punt for 3 years and jumped to 45.5 or whatever it is for one year?

 

[tpaulus_2]

Wow, apparently you really do think you know more than the professionals that do it for a living.

Talk about cocky...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You and MikeD don't think he would have been drafted, that's fine, totally your opinion. What makes me curious, though, is how many combined years do you guys have in scouting to honestly make yourselves believe that you know better than the dozens of professionals involved in our draft process?

I guess the Lions scouting department knows something that every single pre-draft report does about Sam Martin. Maybe the Lions are going to 'develop' him, as they have with so many others, because Martin has a "higher upside".

 

[tpaulus_2]

For what it's worth, Martin worked with the same kicking coach as Allen, and said kicking coach outright said that Martin has a much bigger leg.

I think he quoted your boy Allen as saying "Wow, what do I gotta do to kick like this guy?" or something darn close to that. Maybe I'll have to find the link to that one so you can see that industry insiders (you know, the guys that don't know as much about professional football prospects as a guy who runs a Golden Tee company) think Martin is a better prospect than Allen, who is apparently the best punter available this year that absolutely no team with an opening at punter wanted...

 

[Thruthefog]

Mike Thomas is really starting to get on my nerves. Did someone feed him after midnight?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

For what it's worth, Martin worked with the same kicking coach as Allen, and said kicking coach outright said that Martin has a much bigger leg.

I think he quoted your boy Allen as saying "Wow, what do I gotta do to kick like this guy?" or something darn close to that. Maybe I'll have to find the link to that one so you can see that industry insiders (you know, the guys that don't know as much about professional football prospects as a guy who runs a Golden Tee company) think Martin is a better prospect than Allen, who is apparently the best punter available this year that absolutely no team with an opening at punter wanted...

TP -- not sure if you follow the NFL draft or not, but VERY FEW punters are drafted. 2 were drafted in 2013, 2 in 2012, 1 in 2011, 3 in 2010.

It is a position you can fill with UFA's. As I said -- I have no problem with the Lions drafting a punter, it was a huge need. Trading down in the 5th round and then taking Sam Martin with the pick looked like a panic move by the Lions, after Locke was taken.

It isn't as if Martin was the far and away best punter left on the board and it was a no brainer pick. I believe Detroit is the only team to bring Martin in for a visit, so it isn't as if they had to run to the podium to take him in the 5th round or there wouldn't have been a punter just as good available in the 7th.

 

[tpaulus_2]

TP -- not sure if you follow the NFL draft or not, but VERY FEW punters are drafted. 2 were drafted in 2013, 2 in 2012, 1 in 2011, 3 in 2010.

It is a position you can fill with UFA's.

TrustMeIamRight- not sure if you follow the NFL or not, but 8 of the top 10 punters last year were drafted. So you can fill that position with UFA's, if you want a crappy punting situation like we had last year. How many of your UFA's have we cycled through in the last couple years? How'd they work out for us?

However, if you want one of the best punters in the league, statistics show that you pretty much have to draft one.

 

[tpaulus_2]

You're probably right though, the professionals in charge of the draft for us panicked because Minnesota drafted a punter, traded down 20 spots and then grabbed a punter who nobody else was interested in who was only as good as any punter we could have grabbed in the 7th, or after the draft.

'Cause that totally makes sense and all...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I stand corrected- 9 out of the top 10 punters last season were drafted players.

So you're right, punters don't get drafted often, but 90% of the best ones were, in fact, drafted.

Also, for those (one or two) of your bitching that we took him too early, the average draft position of the 20 punters drafted in the last 10 years is 165.4; we drafted Martin with pick 165. So, according to average draft position, we took him right where other teams drafting punters have been picking theirs...

http://www.detroitlions.com/news/li...-to-find/06d137b9-cedc-4db2-8d32-c3bd9a5cfd96

 

[themuzzer]

TP, you keep suggesting or quite frankly flat out say that the scouts or more importantly Lions scouts know more then everyone on this board. That's why they work in the business and we don't.

Well with the past 50 years of Lions football. I'm starting to believe anyone one us could do their job with a 8 hour seminar.

 

[Thruthefog]

I wonder how long it will take TPaul to realize ain't none of us doing any research when we got the teacher to do it for us.

Oops.

 

[Microwahevo]

If you are on the board to draft a punter -- are you going to take a 2 time Ray Guy award winner, who led the nation in yards per punt and net punting or do you take the guy who averaged 40 yards a punt for 3 years and jumped to 45.5 or whatever it is for one year?

Dont we already know the answer to this question?

 

[Microwahevo]

Well with the past 50 years of Lions football. I'm starting to believe anyone one us could do their job with a 8 hour seminar.

Then apply and quit your bitching. It's obviously easy enough to do. Aren't u the one that said nothing gets done behind a desk? So get your ass out and apply already. What are you waiting for?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

TrustMeIamRight- not sure if you follow the NFL or not, but 8 of the top 10 punters last year were drafted. So you can fill that position with UFA's, if you want a crappy punting situation like we had last year. How many of your UFA's have we cycled through in the last couple years? How'd they work out for us?

However, if you want one of the best punters in the league, statistics show that you pretty much have to draft one.

I didn't realize Sam Martin was going to be one of the best punters in the NFL. Maybe you should let him know -- as his career best average in college would rank him around 20th in the NFL.

I'm sure the Lions will develop him though and he has a "high ceiling", etc. etc. etc. as does every draft pick the Lions make. I would have rather they drafted a position player to give them depth and taken a kicker in the 7th round. You can still hit on picks and find diamonds in the rough in the 5th round.

Martin didn't even play football until his senior year of high school -- he was a soccer player. He has only been punting for a couple years. Why not take a proven commodity instead of taking a flyer on a guy who has only been doing it for a few years?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well with the past 50 years of Lions football. I'm starting to believe anyone one us could do their job with a 8 hour seminar.

Isn't that the truth. That is why I laugh at people who blame the Owner of the Lions for their futility, as if he is short changing the organization or refusing to spend the money necessary to win.

IMO, the draft is the exact reason why the Lions never seem to get anywhere. So you can blame the scouting department, the GM, the president or whoever else. Outside of probably Oakland and Tampa -- I don't think you will find a team who has drafted worse than the Lions over the years.

If is just crazy to me -- imagine what downtown would be like if the Lions actually put a quality product on the field, year in and year out. There is no fan base in the city more faithful than what the Lions have. They continue to fill the stadium and bars every year, even though the team continually disappoints.

 

[themuzzer]

Then apply and quit your bitching. It's obviously easy enough to do. Aren't u the one that said nothing gets done behind a desk? So get your ass out and apply already. What are you waiting for?

I just might do that, can I get a letter of recommendation from you? You and TP seem to stick up for the Lions at every turn and every post.

If I said Millen sucked, I'm sure you and TP could defend that as well.

 

[broncosmitty]

I wish we had drafted a safety too. Phillip Thomas is going to be a good player for a long time, imo. Too bad we gave up this year's 4th for Tahir Whitehead, I'd rather have Thomas by a mile.

I think we're good with our top 3- Delmas, Quin and Carey are all quality guys, but replacing Spievey/Silva/Johnson with Phillip Thomas (or another rookie safety) would have been a great move in my book.

Oh well, though. I suppose complaining about not upgrading our 4th safety isn't such a bad thing...

I really had my heart set on Phillip Thomas. He seemed like a great playmaking DB. Who's ball hawking ability coulda-woulda-shoulda contrasted LouieDs hitting/aggressive blitzing off the edge style. But when not having him on the roster gets me down, I just remind myself that Cliff Avril is gone. The sky gets blue, the birds start singing, thndrs nicknames make laugh, The BSLs retardedness makes me smile, iffys stalking creeps me out less, and Raiolas suckiness doesn't seem to bother me, cuz Avril fucking BLOWS at tackle football. Fast though, which must have been nice when he was a Boiler playing basketball on grass. (I can't imagine playing bball on grass, I just want to eat ice cream and laugh on grass...)