The Dante Exum Thread

[MHSL82]

Here is the breakdown for Trey Burke:

In the first 13 games, he shot 48/150 (32.0%) with one 5/9 game.
In the next 5 games, he shot 29/55 (52.7%) with one 1/6 game.
In the next 15 games, he shot 68/203 (33.5%) with one 5/9 game.
In the next 5 games, he shot 37/73 (51.4%) with 6/14 and 6/13 games.
In these last 3 games, he's shot 12/44 (27.3%).

Here is the cherry picking of Dante Exum

In the first 7 games, he shot 16/33 (48.5%) with a 1/5 and 1/4.
In the next 3 games, he shot 3/13 (23.1%).
In the next 2 games, he shot 5/9 (55.6%).
In the next 10 games, he shot 10/38 (26.3%).
In the next 5 games, he shot 13/20 (65.0%).
In these last 15 games, he's shot 25/80 (31.3%) with 2/3, 3/6, and 5/9 games.

 

[MHSL82]

Here is the breakdown for Trey Burke:

In the first 13 games, he shot 48/150 (32.0%) with one 5/9 game.
In the next 5 games, he shot 29/55 (52.7%) with one 1/6 game.
In the next 11 games, he shot 47/135 (34.8%) with one 5/9 game.

Here is the cherry picking of Dante Exum

In the first 7 games, he shot 16/33 (48.5%) with one 1/5 and 1/4 games in there.
In the next 3 games, he shot 3/13 (23.1%).
In the next 2 games, he shot 5/9 (55.6%).
In the next 10 games, he shot 10/38 (26.3%).
In the next 5 games, he shot 13/20 (65.0%).
In the last 2 games, he shot 4/10 (40.0%) with the last being 2/3.

Here's Kobe Bryant's breakdown:

In the first 10 games, he shot 91/244 (37.3%).
In the next 1 game, he shot 10/18 (55.6%).
In the next 4 games, he shot 31/89 (34.8%).
In the next 1 game, he shot 10/18 (55.6%).
In the next 12 games, he shot 86/246 (34.95%).
In the next 1 game, he shot 6/11 (54.5%).

Yep.

In 3 games, he's 26/47 (55.3%).
In 26 games, he's 208/579 (35.9%).

Achilles rehab means he can't jump on jump shots?

 

[MHSL82]

1. The Start of the Dante Exum Era?

With attention on Derrick Favors’ absence from the team for personal reasons, Quin Snyder snuck up on everyone and sprung Dante Exum’s first ever start over young starter incumbent, Trey Burke. His explanation: 1) hope that playing Exum minutes with the starters would free up the struggling rookie clearly lacking confidence in his ability to drive an offense; and 2) hope that a mightily struggling Trey Burke could get his game on from the pine and add some desperately needed scoring off the bench.

Burke contributed from the bench about what he was as a starter: 10 points on 11 shots, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, and 3 turnovers. Nothing to write home about, but also a much more respectable line for a bench player getting 24 minutes rather than a starter getting 30+. Frankly, the 11 shots were possibly the key stat for a player with a painful .459 TS% on the season.
As for Exum, as has become the norm, it’s extremely difficult to know just how to feel after his second performance as a starter. Why?

He scored 15 point on 12 shots, every single one coming on his 5 made threes (on ten attempts). That 50% shooting from range from a prospect with questionable shooting is good.

His only two drives to the basket, both incredibly high percentage shots, he missed. Those misses, but more those attempts, from a physically gifted blur of a guard is not good.

He produced 5 assists, orchestrating the offense more frequently than seen in a long time. That’s good.

He also frequently looked overwhelmed when the Bucks applied their predatory pressure, turning the ball over (3 times) and stalling the offense while demonstrating little ability to escape the pressure. That’s bad.

A few times while switched on to much larger and stronger players, such as Giannis Antetokounmpo, Exum fronted the post with such determination the Bucks never managed an entry pass. That’s good.

At times when asked to chase speedy Brandon Knight off screens, he looked both unaware of where to go and managed to smack into a screen and stick to it tenaciously. That’s bad.

In short, Exum deepened the impression he believes he’s a 3 and D player in the league, which isn’t the path that leads anywhere near his exciting ceiling. He contributed but with a formula that makes it hard to project just what value he may add to the team going forward.

The Triple Team: Three Thoughts on Jazz at Bucks 1/22/15 | Salt City Hoops

 

[MHSL82]

Milwaukee Bucks Numbers:
Dante Only: 47-47 (24 M) 0
Trey Only: 34-25 (13 M) +9
Both on Court: 20-27 (11 M) -7
Dante: -7
Burke: +2

Brooklyn Nets Numbers:
Dante Only: 44-32 (20 M) +12
Trey Only: 40-32 (17 M) +8
Both on Court: 19-7 (9 M) +12
Neither: 5-2 (2 M) +3
Dante: +20
Burke: +20

Total Numbers:
Dante Only: 91-79 (44 M) +12
Trey Only: 74-57 (30 M) +17
Both on Court: 39-34 (20 M) +5
Neither: 5-2 (2 M) +3
Dante: +13
Burke: +22

From the Indiana Pacers game where Trey had strep throat:

Dante: 65-65 (29:42 M) 0 (-1)
Off-Court: 36-40 (18:18 M) -4

Box Score says -1 for Exum, so there must be some overlap in my numbers. Don't want to go through it now. So, take -1 FWIW.

 

[MHSL82]

1. The Start of the Dante Exum Era?

With attention on Derrick Favors’ absence from the team for personal reasons, Quin Snyder snuck up on everyone and sprung Dante Exum’s first ever start over young starter incumbent, Trey Burke. His explanation: 1) hope that playing Exum minutes with the starters would free up the struggling rookie clearly lacking confidence in his ability to drive an offense; and 2) hope that a mightily struggling Trey Burke could get his game on from the pine and add some desperately needed scoring off the bench.

Burke contributed from the bench about what he was as a starter: 10 points on 11 shots, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, and 3 turnovers. Nothing to write home about, but also a much more respectable line for a bench player getting 24 minutes rather than a starter getting 30+. Frankly, the 11 shots were possibly the key stat for a player with a painful .459 TS% on the season.
As for Exum, as has become the norm, it’s extremely difficult to know just how to feel after his second performance as a starter. Why?

He scored 15 point on 12 shots, every single one coming on his 5 made threes (on ten attempts). That 50% shooting from range from a prospect with questionable shooting is good.

His only two drives to the basket, both incredibly high percentage shots, he missed. Those misses, but more those attempts, from a physically gifted blur of a guard is not good.

He produced 5 assists, orchestrating the offense more frequently than seen in a long time. That’s good.

He also frequently looked overwhelmed when the Bucks applied their predatory pressure, turning the ball over (3 times) and stalling the offense while demonstrating little ability to escape the pressure. That’s bad.

A few times while switched on to much larger and stronger players, such as Giannis Antetokounmpo, Exum fronted the post with such determination the Bucks never managed an entry pass. That’s good.

At times when asked to chase speedy Brandon Knight off screens, he looked both unaware of where to go and managed to smack into a screen and stick to it tenaciously. That’s bad.

In short, Exum deepened the impression he believes he’s a 3 and D player in the league, which isn’t the path that leads anywhere near his exciting ceiling. He contributed but with a formula that makes it hard to project just what value he may add to the team going forward.

The Triple Team: Three Thoughts on Jazz at Bucks 1/22/15 | Salt City Hoops

 

[MHSL82]

Guard Dante Exum in Red Bull High Performance Program

 

[MHSL82]

 

[MHSL82]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2403 ... =utah-jazz

So how does Exum compare to other rookies?

Among rookies who've appeared in at least 50 games, his defensive rating of 98.5 is first. That's significantly better than some of the other rookies who are commonly billed as some of the class' stronger defenders.

Maciej Kwiatkowski @mackwiatkowski

"Dante Exum's Keep-in-Front% of 50.4 is the 4th highest mark among all guards over the past month" via @VantageSports

 

[nuraman00]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2403 ... =utah-jazz

So how does Exum compare to other rookies?

Among rookies who've appeared in at least 50 games, his defensive rating of 98.5 is first. That's significantly better than some of the other rookies who are commonly billed as some of the class' stronger defenders.

Maciej Kwiatkowski @mackwiatkowski

"Dante Exum's Keep-in-Front% of 50.4 is the 4th highest mark among all guards over the past month" via @VantageSports

Wow. That's not just one of the best defensive ratings for rookies.

For a guard, it's one of the best of all time. If he can do that for a full season.

I'll have to watch to see if I agree with that level of effectiveness.

 

[MHSL82]

Dante Exum Set To Make NBA History

 

[nuraman00]

Dante Exum Set To Make NBA History

I only read the first few paragraphs, for now. Thanks for finding the latest clintonite33 article.

But Josh Childress, and Andris Biedrins, while not guards, had several low FT seasons.

Biedrins had a stretch of 17 straight games without a FT.

Childress played 491 minutes, and was 0-2 from the line, all year, in 2011-2012.

 

[MHSL82]

So far, Dante Exum appears to be bigger and better | Deseret News

 

[nuraman00]

So far, Dante Exum appears to be bigger and better | Deseret News

Facepalm.

Every team has these same articles during training camp. I guess with the Jazz, it starts during summer league.

Looks like we have a # 1 scenario below.




1) Player A has gained 20 lbs. and is now stronger than an ox! Look how much tougher he is.


2) Player B has lost 25 lbs. and is now faster than a cheetah! Look how quick and agile he is.


3) Player C is shooting 80% on practice 3-point shots! He is going to burn the nets down next year.

4) This is the hardest training camp ever

5) Player X is in the best shape he's been in Y years


6) The whole team is in the best shape ever!



7) Player D is a few pounds heavier than we'd like him to be, but he'll be ready when the season starts.


8) Player E has been working out all summer but just needs to get into game shape.


9) Player F is in game shape but just needs to get his timing back.




Weight changes, however, don't really change how they play the game. If a guy didn't have the post moves before, than he's not going to have them after the weight change. Maybe it will help make things a little easier, but not too much.

Even 3-point shooting, jumper shooting, or FT shooting, is taken with some context. They're in an empty gym with no defender. Or in the FT case, there isn't the pressure of an in-game score.

Now, with some young players, perhaps they didn't play much their first year or two, so conditioning, stamina might play a role, as well as them figuring out where on the floor their game is suited for.

But in general, I'm more interested to read in practicing a skillset or repetition of drills, than to read about weight changes or someone shooting jumpers in an empty gym, especially without a coach.

 

[MHSL82]

Facepalm.

Every team has these same articles during training camp. I guess with the Jazz, it starts during summer league.

Looks like we have a # 1 scenario below.

1) Player A has gained 20 lbs. and is now stronger than an ox! Look how much tougher he is.

2) Player B has lost 25 lbs. and is now faster than a cheetah! Look how quick and agile he is.

3) Player C is shooting 80% on practice 3-point shots! He is going to burn the nets down next year.

4) This is the hardest training camp ever

5) Player X is in the best shape he's been in Y years

6) The whole team is in the best shape ever!

7) Player D is a few pounds heavier than we'd like him to be, but he'll be ready when the season starts.

8) Player E has been working out all summer but just needs to get into game shape.

9) Player F is in game shape but just needs to get his timing back.

Weight changes, however, don't really change how they play the game. If a guy didn't have the post moves before, than he's not going to have them after the weight change. Maybe it will help make things a little easier, but not too much.

Even 3-point shooting, jumper shooting, or FT shooting, is taken with some context. They're in an empty gym with no defender. Or in the FT case, there isn't the pressure of an in-game score.

Now, with some young players, perhaps they didn't play much their first year or two, so conditioning, stamina might play a role, as well as them figuring out where on the floor their game is suited for.

But in general, I'm more interested to read in practicing a skillset or repetition of drills, than to read about weight changes or someone shooting jumpers in an empty gym, especially without a coach.

I knew you were going to say that, but I posted it because he is 19 and it's his first full offseason and first heading into a season he knows he's starting. Plus, his size and conditioning were big issues to him. Wasn't the case for Malone, though I know he must have been stronger his second year than his first. So, I wouldn't post that about Malone.

 

[nuraman00]

I knew you were going to say that,

Before I made the post above, I searched to see if I had posted these generic training camp headlines before, on this forum. I couldn't find it.

So is it in a hard-to-find thread somewhere?

Or, had you not seen that post before, but just guessed what I was going to say?

I knew you were going to say that, but I posted it because he is 19 and it's his first full offseason and first heading into a season he knows he's starting. Plus, his size and conditioning were big issues to him. Wasn't the case for Malone, though I know he must have been stronger his second year than his first. So, I wouldn't post that about Malone.

Why was size an issue for him? Isn't he a good size player for his position?

Also, can you post some quotes or articles that mentioned his conditioning last year?

Did he say last year that playing NBA minutes (either per game, or total per season) were tougher than college, and that he had to get used to the NBA minutes?

 

[nuraman00]

It looks like Exum is a combination of # 1 and # 5.

 

[MHSL82]

Before I made the post above, I searched to see if I had posted these generic training camp headlines before, on this forum. I couldn't find it.

So is it in a hard-to-find thread somewhere?

Or, had you not seen that post before, but just guessed what I was going to say?



Why was size an issue for him? Isn't he a good size player for his position?

Also, can you post some quotes or articles that mentioned his conditioning last year?

Did he say last year that playing NBA minutes (either per game, or total per season) were tougher than college, and that he had to get used to the NBA minutes?

All you had to do was watch him huff and puff by the 3 minute mark in the first quarter. He seriously got gassed. Didn't see it as much at the very end of the year (the out of breathness), but he still avoided the paint and many said that was due to size as well as rookie hesitation. I don't have scientific proof that size would have helped, but it's fair to say that a general fan base who watched him would suggest he needed bulk and conditioning.

I can't pinpoint statistically but it did seem after finally catching his breath a third into the season, he hit the rookie wall (which for some can be exaggerated). He hit it and he started starting.

It's good for him to get bigger, but no one's calling him an ox and it should be expected at 20 to be the best shape of his life. Your pet peeve with that seems to be better applied to someone entering their fifth or sixth year and getting hype from the media. I don't see that much hype, just this article, and it should be expected for him to be in the best shape of his life right now, so I don't see that as being puffery.

in other words, I agree with your list but I don't think it applies here.

 

[nuraman00]

All you had to do was watch him huff and puff by the 3 minute mark in the first quarter. He seriously got gassed. Didn't see it as much at the very end of the year (the out of breathness), but he still avoided the paint and many said that was due to size as well as rookie hesitation. I don't have scientific proof that size would have helped, but it's fair to say that a general fan base who watched him would suggest he needed bulk and conditioning.

Thanks. Maybe it's hard for me to see if someone's gassed, while watching on a non HDMI resolution stream. I look for the movement of the players in general, but I probably do miss out on some other details of the game.

Whenever the games were on NBA TV instead, I always watched there, so I could get the full resolution and see games in the best quality. I think at least 3-4 Jazz games a month would be on NBA TV. And I think a lot more during December and February, it was multiple times a week during some of those weeks.

All you had to do was watch him huff and puff by the 3 minute mark in the first quarter. He seriously got gassed. Didn't see it as much at the very end of the year (the out of breathness), but he still avoided the paint and many said that was due to size as well as rookie hesitation. I don't have scientific proof that size would have helped, but it's fair to say that a general fan base who watched him would suggest he needed bulk and conditioning.

Interesting. Because of how historic his low FT attempts were, maybe he didn't think he had the energy/stamina/strength to take the contact and get fouled, in the paint.

He finished 20-32 from the foul line for the year. Most of the attempts happened in November and December (27 attempts)

 

[MHSL82]

Thanks. Maybe it's hard for me to see if someone's gassed, while watching on a non HDMI resolution stream. I look for the movement of the players in general, but I probably do miss out on some other details of the game.

Whenever the games were on NBA TV instead, I always watched there, so I could get the full resolution and see games in the best quality. I think at least 3-4 Jazz games a month would be on NBA TV. And I think a lot more during December and February, it was multiple times a week during some of those weeks.



Interesting. Because of how historic his low FT attempts were, maybe he didn't think he had the energy/stamina/strength to take the contact and get fouled, in the paint.

He finished 20-32 from the foul line for the year. Most of the attempts happened in November and December (27 attempts)

Not that I am any authority on any issue, but this year, I watched all 82 games, about 10-15 live. That means, maybe I was the guy gassed when watching him on DVR after work and family things?

 

[nuraman00]

Not that I am any authority on any issue, but this year, I watched all 82 games, about 10-15 live. That means, maybe I was the guy gassed when watching him on DVR after work and family things?

LOL.

For a second, I thought your post meant 10-15 in person.

Let me know during those times in the future when you're watching live. Post in a thread, if you can. No guarantee I'll be there live too, but who knows.