THE BIG 10 THREAD

[Sgt Brutus]

We don't need to change divisions again, at least not until expansion. Give the West time, those teams won't always be down.

When all 3 of the 4 bluebloods are on one side that seems to be a problem to me.

The money and top 4 coaches are in the East. I can understand arguments of the West will come around but I call Bullshit when you have the the 4 historically best B1G teams on one side.

 

[iowajerms]

When all 3 of the 4 bluebloods are on one side that seems to be a problem to me.

The money and top 4 coaches are in the East. I can understand arguments of the West will come around but I call Bullshit when you have the the 4 historically best B1G teams on one side.

MSU is not that historic compared to Minnesota or Nebraska. I would put Nebraska above PSU, historically. MSU and Wisconsin are about the same IMO.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Well I left Neb out because they just joined and it helps my argument

 

[rmilia1]

When all 3 of the 4 bluebloods are on one side that seems to be a problem to me.

The money and top 4 coaches are in the East. I can understand arguments of the West will come around but I call Bullshit when you have the the 4 historically best B1G teams on one side.

Eh. Nebraska is more of a blue blood than PSU and MSU but yeah most of the top tier tradition is in the East

 

[H2S]

ranking, of 129 schools, by win %, since whenever:

#002 Michigan
#004 Ohio State
#009 Nebraska
#010 Penn State
#025 Michigan State
#043 Wisconsin
#046 Minnesota
#071 Iowa
#072 Maryland
#074 Purdue
#079 Illinois
#084 Rutgers
#111 Northwestern
#119 Indiana

 

[rmilia1]

ranking, of 129 schools, by win %, since whenever:

#002 Michigan
#004 Ohio State
#009 Nebraska
#010 Penn State
#025 Michigan State
#043 Wisconsin
#046 Minnesota
#071 Iowa
#072 Maryland
#074 Purdue
#079 Illinois
#084 Rutgers
#111 Northwestern
#119 Indiana

Seems right. East with 4 of the top 5 but West with 5 of the next 6.

 

[UM Fire]

Seems right. East with 4 of the top 5 but West with 5 of the next 6.

Slightly more than half of the 7 teams in the East are in the top 5 of the conference, that doesn't suggest much balance. I see the point about the next 6 teams on the list, but the East had already used half their teams up, the West almost had to dominate the middle of the list.

To dust off my nerd card:

Average ranks
East: 45.1
West: 61.9

Median rank
East: 25
West:71

 

[wingsauce7]

I think Leaders and Legends had better balance.

 

[rmilia1]

Slightly more than half of the 7 teams in the East are in the top 5 of the conference, that doesn't suggest much balance. I see the point about the next 6 teams on the list, but the East had already used half their teams up, the West almost had to dominate the middle of the list.

To dust off my nerd card:

Average ranks
East: 45.1
West: 61.9

Median rank
East: 25
West:71

Sure but you're talking all time rankings. Frankly this is the first time in awhile that the east has had more than 2 quality teams in the same year so I'm not sure it'll be a long term issue. If Michigan gets back to being Michigan it's highly likely msu will dip back down

 

[UM Fire]

Sure but you're talking all time rankings. Frankly this is the first time in awhile that the east has had more than 2 quality teams in the same year so I'm not sure it'll be a long term issue. If Michigan gets back to being Michigan it's highly likely msu will dip back down

That could be true, I was actually thinking about this the other day. Not to take anything away from Dantonio, because he's done a great job making MSU into a perennial threat to win the B1G and on the national stage, but the rise of Sparty seems to correspond with the change from pro style to spread under RR.

I'd have to go back and look at the recruiting for both schools, but it would make sense that the power football/pro players in the area that would normally go to Michigan went instead to State. This would be on top of the players that would have gone to State regardless. Under Hoke, we began competing for many of the same players again and I don't expect that to change much under Harbaugh.

It will be interesting to see what happens to both Michigan and MSU during the next few years. That being said, I think MSU will be hurt some by a return to power football and success at Michigan. I just don't think they would fade into the middle of the pack. I think Dantonio is too good of a coach to let that happen.

 

[UM Fire]

One other issue is how else do you break the teams up? North/South would have the same issues. It would have Minn, Wisc, MSU, UM, Iowa and PSU on the same side. The only way I can see getting more parity is picking teams similar to Legends and Leaders where geography doesn't matter. Personally, I don't like that option. It would, however, be pretty damn funny watching the conference draft schools into two different divisions.

 

[rmilia1]

That could be true, I was actually thinking about this the other day. Not to take anything away from Dantonio, because he's done a great job making MSU into a perennial threat to win the B1G and on the national stage, but the rise of Sparty seems to correspond with the change from pro style to spread under RR.

I'd have to go back and look at the recruiting for both schools, but it would make sense that the power football/pro players in the area that would normally go to Michigan went instead to State. This would be on top of the players that would have gone to State regardless. Under Hoke, we began competing for many of the same players again and I don't expect that to change much under Harbaugh.

It will be interesting to see what happens to both Michigan and MSU during the next few years. That being said, I think MSU will be hurt some by a return to power football and success at Michigan. I just don't think they would fade into the middle of the pack. I think Dantonio is too good of a coach to let that happen.

It's just pretty rare when both teams are very good at the same time and I can't remember it ever happening on a long term basis

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Seems right. East with 4 of the top 5 but West with 5 of the next 6.

Yeah so not balanced

One other issue is how else do you break the teams up? North/South would have the same issues. It would have Minn, Wisc, MSU, UM, Iowa and PSU on the same side. The only way I can see getting more parity is picking teams similar to Legends and Leaders where geography doesn't matter. Personally, I don't like that option. It would, however, be pretty damn funny watching the conference draft schools into two different divisions.

View attachment 40740

I see no issue with it not being based on geography, if that means more balance

 

[Sgt Brutus]

If you like seeing blowout like last year though them by all means make no changes and the east will take turns tuning up the Badgers or on the odd year Iowa/Nebraska

 

[rmilia1]

Yeah so not balanced


I see no issue with it not being based on geography, if that means more balance

Sure this year they aren't balanced but that's going to happen sometimes. No real way around it. Plus you can't really do anything about it imo. Maybe if we go 5 straight years with a huge imbalance it'll be worth looking at but that's highly unlikely

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Sure this year they aren't balanced but that's going to happen sometimes. No real way around it. Plus you can't really do anything about it imo. Maybe if we go 5 straight years with a huge imbalance it'll be worth looking at but that's highly unlikely

Look at the recruiting, head coaches, facilities, and money

Tell me how it won't be imbalanced most years? After this baseball game I'll pull the recruiting rankings. I already know the top paid coaches are the big 4 in the East.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

If it doesn't get changed them fine, better schedule for us but let's not sit here and pretend they fucked up the divisions in terms of balance. I have a suspicion it was because of scheduling, in which case I say stop being lazy and if there are rematches so be it. Best two teams should play.

 

[7Samurai13]

That could be true, I was actually thinking about this the other day. Not to take anything away from Dantonio, because he's done a great job making MSU into a perennial threat to win the B1G and on the national stage, but the rise of Sparty seems to correspond with the change from pro style to spread under RR.

I'd have to go back and look at the recruiting for both schools, but it would make sense that the power football/pro players in the area that would normally go to Michigan went instead to State. This would be on top of the players that would have gone to State regardless. Under Hoke, we began competing for many of the same players again and I don't expect that to change much under Harbaugh.

It will be interesting to see what happens to both Michigan and MSU during the next few years. That being said, I think MSU will be hurt some by a return to power football and success at Michigan. I just don't think they would fade into the middle of the pack. I think Dantonio is too good of a coach to let that happen.

Before this past recruiting class Michigan State never had more than 4 players on scholarship that had an offer from Michigan. I'm not talking about in each class, I mean on an 85 man roster. MSU has never really taken any players from Michigan. So Hoke was winning the recruiting battles against Dantonio, but Dantonio is an exponentially better coach than Hoke.

 

[rmilia1]

Look at the recruiting, head coaches, facilities, and money

Tell me how it won't be imbalanced most years? After this baseball game I'll pull the recruiting rankings. I already know the top paid coaches are the big 4 in the East.

Eh I don't really care about recruiting. I went back 15 years and the East has 38 top 25 finishes with 19 top 10. West has 36 top 25 finishes with 9 top 10. So yeah East has the lead but OSU has like half those top 10 so pretty much any division their in is going to have the lead lol. I'm just saying while it feels more imbalanced this year the recent results say otherwise. Maybe it'll get worse but maybe not

 

[Innermind]

The Big10 doesn't have protected cross over games anymore so you will be losing the Michigan vs Michigan State game. I just don't see that flying with MSU and eliminating their biggest rivalry game.

That's not entirely true. The B1G still has one protected cross-over game, the Old Oaken Bucket game between Purdue & Indiana is to always be played the final week of the regular season (Thanksgiving weekend). Virtually no risk of a re-match in the B1G CCG.

The B1G could also do the same thing with the Michigan vs Ohio State game if those two teams were to be placed in separate divisions just like they were during the Legends & Leaders years. Although, I would not recommend the game be played the final week of the regular season because there would be a high probability of playing a re-match in back-to-back weeks. So.... if Michigan & Ohio State were to be placed in separate divisions like they were during the Legends & Leaders years, the annually protected cross-over game between the Wolverines & Buckeyes should probably be played sometime late October to early November.

Or.... keep Michigan & Ohio State in the same division, but move Michigan State to the other division, and simply protect the cross-over game annually just like the Old Oaken Bucket game is currently protected. But... make sure to play the Michigan vs Michigan State game mid to late October or early November.