The 70's & 80's NFL Draft : CHAT

[Nosferatu]

I didn't guess that

You are the only one, Vincent was a special talent! It's a joke he's not in the HOF!

 

[CitySushi]

Disclaimer: IMO

Lebron can never be established as the GOAT, because the standard of what the GOAT should be was set by MJ. It's kind of backward logic, but it's true. MJ in a sense ruined the NBA comparison model because of how great he was during his era. There can be no fair, objective comparison because any way you argue it, MJ checks all the boxes. Was he the most dominant player? Yes. Was he a championship player? Yes. Did he have intangibles (clutch factor)? Yes.

There's no way another person can compare because he's the one who set those standards. There will always be another player who comes along to challenge this, but you can't compare it because he's the gold standard, with a near infallible record.

 

[Mebert]

Bruh, look at his rosters man. It's literally the definition of carry. He had no quality players in his first go round with the Cavs. If anything, that should cement his legacy as a great player, not his championships.

The biggest thing I hate in the MJ/Lebron comparison, is that they are two separate players. MJ was a scorer. He was the guy you put the ball in his hands and he's going to put in it in the basket, somehow, someway. Lebron, you put the ball in his hands and he's going to make the right basketball play. He's not the scorer that MJ was, despite his huge scoring numbers. Those are really a bonus in relation to the impact he makes on a nightly basis.

Now I still content MJ is the best ever, but Lebron is making a strong case for #2, above Magic, KAJ, and others.

Yeah his team's are bad. My point is everyone brings up Jordan losing in the east playoffs like LeBron never did. NO lost pre Pippen, LeBron lost pre collusion. It is not a bonus in his favor.

 

[CitySushi]

MJ & Magic will probably always be 1 & 2 IMO. Magic invented the right basketball play.

Inventing something doesn't mean you're the best to ever do it. You were transcendent, but in comparison, Lebron has surpassed the overall greatness because of other things he does at an elite level.

And again, growing up Magic was my favorite player. Then MJ. Then Iverson (which is I know weird because he was a terribly inefficient player and I hate on Westbrook all the time for the same stuff I loved about Iverson).

 

[CitySushi]

Yeah his team's are bad. My point is everyone brings up Jordan losing in the east playoffs like LeBron never did. NO lost pre Pippen, LeBron lost pre collusion. It is not a bonus in his favor.

I think it's an unfair argument like you.

But if you look at it objectively, you'll see that their careers take a similar trajectory. Neither was able to win without another top tier talent next to them. Pre-Scottie, and Pre-Wade, Lebron and MJ both did everything they could to challenge for a championship, but always well short. It wasn't until either had a legitimate star next to them were they really able to shine in terms of being championship caliber players.

 

[Nosferatu]

Inventing something doesn't mean you're the best to ever do it. You were transcendent, but in comparison, Lebron has surpassed the overall greatness because of other things he does at an elite level.

And again, growing up Magic was my favorite player. Then MJ. Then Iverson (which is I know weird because he was a terribly inefficient player and I hate on Westbrook all the time for the same stuff I loved about Iverson).

I respectfully disagree...

 

[TheRobotDevil]

He was trying to slam his face into the ice, hes a fucking pussy and the next chance Subban gets he should board the shit out of him!

He was but I've definitely seen worse mo.Crosby isn't new to cheap shots "the nut shot". But I do think people blew that a bit out of proportion imo

I think Pittsburgh just scored again...

That game was painful to watch

 

[Shanemansj13]

They were favored because they had MJ. People don't remember MJ losing to the Pistons every year? Sure they do, they were a very young team then once Pippen and Horace Grant grew up a little bit nobody was beating them. The Cavs could come back and win this series and LeBron still should never be talked about in the same conversations as Jordan. But yer a Cavs fan so I get you defending him...

They had Pippen when they were losing to the Pistons so your logic is flawed. The good ole boys will always take MJ I get it, he is GOAT. But Lebron is most complete player to ever play the game, MJ was the best scorer by far.

You're right if Lebron came back and won this series like he did last year there would be no discussion bc Lebron would be GOAT. MJ never saw a team close to what the Warriors are right now. Elite defense combined with the best offense we have EVER seen. MJ would shit his pants having to guard 3 elite shooters we have EVER seen and two top 5 player in the NBA right now.

It isnt close really. The Warriors offense is essily better than any team MJ faced...not close

 

[Shanemansj13]

Just to be clear, LeBron did not really carry his team pre collusion. He made the finals once, then he shifted from super team to super team. It is not like all his finals losses came with the 1st Cavs team. Can't really use that for his excuse for all his losses there.

For 7 years he was on 15 win team without him, it isnt an excuse, it's a fact. Supr team to super team? He went to Miami won 2 championships faced some pretty great teams. His fault was 2011 vs the Mavs, other than that he has dominated. The past 3 years MJ didnt face a team near to the Warriors talent and team.

Saying the Cavs are a super team RIGHT NOW is something I really just dont get. He has less now than MJ does in an offensive oriented league and he went back to the Cavs team that couldnt sniff to playoffs. The Cavs were such a super team huh? I guess we need to call the MJ teams super teams bc they were just much better than everyone else like the current Warriors roster. The Bulls in the 90's were favored in all their Finals appearances, Lebrons' teams have been favored in exactly 2 of the 8. When MJ did face tough odds, what happened? Ohh he lost before getting to the Finals.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah his team's are bad. My point is everyone brings up Jordan losing in the east playoffs like LeBron never did. NO lost pre Pippen, LeBron lost pre collusion. It is not a bonus in his favor.

He lost with Pippen as well. 3 straight years to Pistons. As soon as the Pistons and Celtics dynasties came to an end is when MJ started winning. The only year he faced Magic was when he was the lowest point in his career. MJ beat up a pretty good Jazz and Sonics teams and aging end-lf-dynasty teams. Other than that, the competition isnt much different, pretty difficult to compare different style eras in the first place but saying MJ played much better competition is bullshit IMO

 

[Ritzarmy]

500

 

[Shanemansj13]

That's enough of me. I am just going to watch Game 4 and shut up lol

 

[CitySushi]

I respectfully disagree...

Disagree about Lebron's skill versus Magic or disagree about being the first to ever do it being better? Just wanted to clarify.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Disagree about Lebron's skill versus Magic or disagree about being the first to ever do it being better? Just wanted to clarify.

Lebron has as much bball IQ as Magic and has all the skills he did except Lebron is an elite scorer and did it for his entire career. IMO. That being said, I still have Magic ahead of Lebron at this point.

 

[Ritzarmy]

Lebron has as much bball IQ as Magic and has all the skills he did except Lebron is an elite scorer and did it for his entire career. IMO. That being said, I still have Magic ahead of Lebron at this point.

That didn't last long with you shutting your mouth

 

[TJL]

Nos is a hater.

 

[CitySushi]

I think when it comes to debating the top 5-10 players, it just comes down to a matter of preference. I wouldn't argue with anyone who said Magic was better than Lebron. There's a fair argument to be had both ways, IMO. I don't think you can discount the impact either make on a court, they just did it differently. Magic had waaay more assists and Lebron has been a much better scorer. It's just whichever guy you like better.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Nos is a hater.

Nah. MJ is GOAT. Comparing them at this point is pointless. People give Lebron shit bc he switched teams, which is fine, but if MJ was fed that roster he would doing the same damn thing. This is Chicago, LA or Boston...this is Cleveland we are talking about. He did more with less than anyone. The Finals record is what it is but comparing their situations is pointless IMO

 

[TJL]

Nah. MJ is GOAT. Comparing them at this point is pointless. People give Lebron shit bc he switched teams, which is fine, but if MJ was fed that roster he would doing the same damn thing. This is Chicago, LA or Boston...this is Cleveland we are talking about. He did more with less than anyone. The Finals record is what it is but comparing their situations is pointless IMO

MJ is the Goat, I didn't say he wasnt.

LeBron is better than Magic tho.

 

[CitySushi]

For comparison, here's there Per 100 Possessions numbers:

Magic:
ORTG: 121
DRTG: 104
PPG: 25.4
APG: 14.5
RPG: 9.4
BPG: 0.5
SPG: 2.5
TOV: 5.0
Win Shares: 155.8
PER: 24.1

Lebron:
ORG: 116
DRTG: 103
PPG: 36.7
APG: 9.5
RPG: 9.8
BPG: 1.0
SPG: 2.2
Win Shares: 205.4
PER: 27.6