The 2023-2024 NBA Season

[Mecca]

Why do we get these advance previews of the voting? It’s like they want to know so they can straighten it out if need be.

Clicks

This race has been over for awhile.

Even if some change there votes, it wouldn’t be enough to close the gap on Joker getting 80% of the votes.

 

[thunderc]

I hear you.

I understand, intellectually, why you don’t hold what has been the norm in the past against Joker.

I’m just incredibly uncomfortable with Jokic being in the company of some of the all time greats.

Maybe he will get there.

If he doesn’t?

Yikes

View attachment 358773

Just tieing Bird and Magic is too much

 

[Duffman]

Just fucking stop with this Kyrie bullshit man.

Kyrie is an 8 time All Star who was voted to his last one in 2023.

Why do you keep pretending like that doesn’t matter?

 

[tlance]

I hear you.

I understand, intellectually, why you don’t hold what has been the norm in the past against Joker.

I’m just incredibly uncomfortable with Jokic being in the company of some of the all time greats.

Maybe he will get there.

If he doesn’t?

Yikes

View attachment 358773

I get that too.

Jokic is every bit as good as Moses Malone IMO.

And will likely end with a very similar resume and place in history when it’s all said and done.

 

[Duffman]

Just tieing Bird and Magic is too much

Would these same conversations be going on if it was Giannis about to win his 3rd?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Clicks

This race has been over for awhile.

Even if some change there votes, it wouldn’t be enough to close the gap on Joker getting 80% of the votes.

It's so lazy

Team that won title last year is at maybe 57 wins on the year

That was typically an auto disqualifier all things equal.

And this is very equal. If it wasn't for the absolute dumbest advanced metric of all sports (defensive box plus minus) we probably aren't having this conversation.

 

[thunderc]

Would these same conversations be going on if it was Giannis about to win his 3rd?

I don’t know why not

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Kyrie is an 8 time All Star who was voted to his last one in 2023.

Why do you keep pretending like that doesn’t matter?

Because he hasn't led a team to jack shit while Murray has carried the Nuggets in the playoffs twice now.

Remind me how did Denver do the years he was out?

 

[Duffman]

If it wasn't for the absolute dumbest advanced metric of all sports (defensive box plus minus) we probably aren't having this conversation.

Sure, but if the MVP was decided on by who has the best dunk things would be very different as well, doesn’t change the fact that that’s not the world we live in.

 

[Duffman]

Because he hasn't led a team to jack shit while Murray has carried the Nuggets in the playoffs twice now.

Remind me how did Denver do the years he was out?

Yet the NBA doesn‘t consider Murray an All-Star so they favor Jokic more than other players who play with other All-Stars or Top 75 players.

Take it up with them.

Luka was expected to play better because of who he has as his #2, Jokic doesn’t have that. Fair or not that’s how things are.

 

[Mecca]

The league decided Joker leading the team he had to the 6th seed was MVP worthy, Luka will never get that same treatment because he plays with Kyrie who as of last year, is still an All-Star. Fair or not because of who he plays with he’s expected to do better, so finishing as the 4th seed or lower isn’t as impressive as what Jokic did(according to the NBA voters).

And not to bag on Luka but you can’t bring up how close he is to average a TD when he’s not even averaging a double-double

So, let me make sure I have this correct…

Playing with Kyrie is a disqualifying factor?

So, how do you explain Curry winning it TWICE playing with prime Klay?

How about Lebron winning it playing with Bosh AND Wade?

Jordan winning with Puppen?

Magic winning with….

Well you get the point.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Yet the NBA doesn‘t consider Murray an All-Star so they favor Jokic more than other players who play with other All-Stars or Top 75 players.

Take it up with them.

Luka was expected to play better because of who he has as his #2, Jokic doesn’t have that. Fair or not that’s how things are.

How many series did Jokic win without Murray

 

[Stakesarehigh]

So, let me make sure I have this correct…

Playing with Kyrie is a disqualifying factor?

So, how do you explain Curry winning it TWICE playing with prime Klay?

How about Lebron winning it playing with Bosh AND Wade?

Jordan winning with Puppen?

Magic winning with….

Well you get the point.

It's more ridiculous he is arguing Kyrie is somehow way more critical than Jamal Murray

 

[Duffman]

So, let me make sure I have this correct…

Playing with Kyrie is a disqualifying factor?

So, how do you explain Curry winning it TWICE playing with prime Klay?

How about Lebron winning it playing with Bosh AND Wade?

Jordan winning with Puppen?

Magic winning with….

Well you get the point.

I’m not saying it’s a disqualifying factor, I’m saying he’s graded differently so being the 5 seed isn’t enough, if he was the 2 seed, he would be the MVP

 

[Mecca]

Would these same conversations be going on if it was Giannis about to win his 3rd?

Uh, yeah.

Why wouldn’t it?

 

[Mecca]

I’m not saying it’s a disqualifying factor, I’m saying he’s graded differently so being the 5 seed isn’t enough, if he was the 2 seed, he would be the MVP

Right.

So would SGA…

Oh, wait….

 

[Duffman]

It's more ridiculous he is arguing Kyrie is somehow way more critical than Jamal Murray

Regular season Jamal Murray, and playoff Jamal Murray are two different players, he’s a lot like Jimmy Butler in that regard.

And after the playoffs Murray had last year the NBA still didn’t consider him an All-Star. Clearly they don’t value him as much as they should, but that doesn’t change that he’s still not an All Star in their mind.

 

[Duffman]

Right.

So would SGA…

Oh, wait….

And SGA is #2 on everyone’s list as you have clearly seen. I don’t know what SGA needs to do but he was clearly boosted by the fact that he‘s as important to his team as he is.

That helped him, not enough to win MVP but enough to make him 2nd.

 

[Duffman]

Uh, yeah.

Why wouldn’t it?

So then its not about Jokic, it’s about people being afraid to give people awards if they get too close to the legends of the past.

Do you get how ass backwards that thinking is?

 

[thunderc]

I’m not saying it’s a disqualifying factor, I’m saying he’s graded differently so being the 5 seed isn’t enough, if he was the 2 seed, he would be the MVP

Shai has been the 1 seed as much as anyone in the conversation has