The 2023-2024 NBA Season

[Mecca]

I get that too.

Jokic is every bit as good as Moses Malone IMO.

And will likely end with a very similar resume and place in history when it’s all said and done.

That tracks on paper.

I think Joker is what Arvydus Sabonis would have been had he come to the NBA with working knees.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Regular season Jamal Murray, and playoff Jamal Murray are two different players, he’s a lot like Jimmy Butler in that regard.

And after the playoffs Murray had last year the NBA still didn’t consider him an All-Star. Clearly they don’t value him as much as they should, but that doesn’t change that he’s still not an All Star in their mind.

How many playoff series has he won without Murray

I assume 5 or 6 right?

 

[fightinfunbags]

He isn’t competing against Shaq, or Kobe or Hakeem or Bird for MVP now is he?

Yes he is. Are you ok? Why do I have to take the time to explain to you the concept of legacy in sports? If you want to give this guy his third MVP in 4 years then you better justify this with a huge gap between Jokic and the competition. You can’t do that for any of his three MVPs. One of him he was a damn 6th seed for godsakes! But now his MVP wins place him in rate air he doesn’t belong in.


Are you ready to go the whole way and argue that number of MVPs has no role in assessing a player’s legacy?

 

[Duffman]

Shai has been the 1 seed as much as anyone in the conversation has

And that’s impressive, I’m not trying to take away how good he is, if he wins it next year, I’m not gonna be shocked.

But whatever they decided was enough to boost him second this year, but not number one.

 

[fightinfunbags]

You are just as sad as the other voters so he just got to keep doing what he is doing but when LeBron and Giannis did that everyone screamed about voters fatigue lol team doesn’t even have to get better

Hmmm… what separates LeBron and Giannis from Jokic? I’m trying to put my finger on it. Hmmmmm….

 

[Mecca]

So then its not about Jokic, it’s about people being afraid to give people awards if they get too close to the legends of the past.

Do you get how ass backwards that thinking is?

Yes, it’s not fair to hold the sins of the past against a guy playing today.

But you are missing the crux of my argument.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t give it to Joker simply because it puts him in elite company.

I’m saying they shouldn’t give it to him because I think SGA is more deserving.

That precedence stuff is just the cherry on the top of the shit sundae.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Hmmm… what separates LeBron and Giannis from Jokic? I’m trying to put my finger on it. Hmmmmm….

Yea

On this one it's hard to argue that's not a factor.

 

[Mecca]

He isn’t competing against Shaq, or Kobe or Hakeem or Bird for MVP now is he?

He is historically.

 

[thunderc]

Yea

On this one it's hard to argue that's not a factor.

What’s not a factor? He’s a foreigner.

 

[Duffman]

How many playoff series has he won without Murray

I assume 5 or 6 right?

Last I checked the MVP was a regular season award.

Also, you know it’s 1.

 

[tlance]

Yes he is. Are you ok? Why do I have to take the time to explain to you the concept of legacy in sports? If you want to give this guy his third MVP in 4 years then you better justify this with a huge gap between Jokic and the competition. You can’t do that for any of his three MVPs. One of him he was a damn 6th seed for godsakes! But now his MVP wins place him in rate air he doesn’t belong in.


Are you ready to go the whole way and argue that number of MVPs has no role in assessing a player’s legacy?

You don’t have to be an ass.

I understand every aspect of this conversation.

I just fundamentally disagree with you.

Of course # of MVPs matter. But just like every other measure of a player’s greatness, context matters too.

These debates aren’t settled by accolades alone.

So I want the most deserving player to win every year.

This year it is Jokic IMO.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Jokic is every bit as good as Moses Malone IMO.

Bwahahaha!

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Last I checked the MVP was a regular season award.

Also, you know it’s 1.

Yes it's 1

So look at the 07 Cavs roster and tell me Jokic deserves to be on a plane with LeBron James.

Jokic is a fantastic player. But the precedent is this glass ceiling to getting multiple MVPs. That's the precedent. Jokic is not clearly the best player nor is the team smoking expectations.

It's absolutely absurd anyone with a vote is doing this.

 

[Mecca]

You don’t have to be an ass.

I understand every aspect of this conversation.

I just fundamentally disagree with you.

Of course # of MVPs matter. But just like every other measure of a player’s greatness, context matters too.

These debates aren’t settled by accolades alone.

So I want the most deserving player to win every year.

This year it is Jokic IMO.

That’s fair.

I think it’s SGA.

But It wouldn’t be a huge robbery if it went to Joker.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Would these same conversations be going on if it was Giannis about to win his 3rd?

It did go on and since then Giannis has been shut out for whatever reason. He's having a season that’s arguably better than his two MVP seasons and he isn’t even a consideration.

 

[fightinfunbags]

So, let me make sure I have this correct…

Playing with Kyrie is a disqualifying factor?

So, how do you explain Curry winning it TWICE playing with prime Klay?

How about Lebron winning it playing with Bosh AND Wade?

Jordan winning with Puppen?

Magic winning with….

Well you get the point.

The MVP is a narrative award and in this moment the narrative is driven by analytics. Analytics say Jokic is the best player to ever lace em up. It’s tired and lazy.

 

[Duffman]

Yes it's 1

So look at the 07 Cavs roster and tell me Jokic deserves to be on a plane with LeBron James.

Jokic is a fantastic player. But the precedent is this glass ceiling to getting multiple MVPs. That's the precedent. Jokic is not clearly the best player nor is the team smoking expectations.

It's absolutely absurd anyone with a vote is doing this.

Yes, LeBron has been screwed many times in his career and he should’ve won MVP at times that he didn’t, so essentially because he got screwed everyone else has to get screwed as well.

 

[fightinfunbags]

I’m not saying it’s a disqualifying factor, I’m saying he’s graded differently so being the 5 seed isn’t enough, if he was the 2 seed, he would be the MVP

Oh you mean SGA? What seed would he have to be in order to be MVP?

 

[fightinfunbags]

Right.

So would SGA…

Oh, wait….

Beat me to it

 

[fightinfunbags]

So then its not about Jokic, it’s about people being afraid to give people awards if they get too close to the legends of the past.

Do you get how ass backwards that thinking is?

That’s the precedent that’s been set. Listen, I know you just discovered basketball but it’s been played for a long time.