The 2023-2024 NBA Season

[thunderc]

If things do not finish well for the Bucks.....could they really fire Doc and bring in somebody else next season?

They would be paying 3 coaches next season.

With what they have done nothing would surprise me at this point.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Like I said you aren’t watching, Shai’s current impact on games is no less than any one of those guys. Give it time, all that is needed.

if SGA were to win a title he would deserve a TON of credit because he would clearly be the worst "best" guy on a team to win a title in a long long long time- especially without a HOF #2 and/or #3.

 

[thunderc]

if SGA were to win a title he would deserve a TON of credit because he would clearly be the worst "best" guy on a team to win a title in a long long long time- especially without a HOF #2 and/or #3.

Once again, you are projecting your own thoughts on an incomplete product. None of those guys were complete packages at 25. You have no idea how much he will continue growing, none of us do.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Once again, you are projecting your own thoughts on an incomplete product. None of those guys were complete packages at 25. You have no idea how much he will continue growing, none of us do.

I can confidently say it is against the manifest weight of the evidence that he will join recent best players on an NBA championship team such as LeBron, Kobe, Curry, Durant, Garnett, as inner circle hall of famers. I think it highly highly unlikely he reach the heights of top 30-50 guys of all time such as Dirk, Jokic, Wade, Pierce, Allen, Giannis--- is it possible he is a hall of famer- but more on the level of 2nd or 3rd guys on championship teams like Love, Bosh, Draymond, Klay, Kyrie, Pau, Parker, Ginobiili?

does anyone think SGA is on a hall of fame tract? I think the best anyone could say is "maybe if things go well"- let alone a high level hall of fame talent.

just looking at the last 20+ years of the NBA- it is almost guaranteed you need a high level hall of famer to win- and at least another hall of famer or two. The Thunder had 3 probable hall of famers at one time and never won it.

I certainly do not think SGA, Giddey, Williams, Holmgren will get there---- but again- I will not say its impossible as some teams that were not "great" have won in the last 20 years like the Mavs, Raptors, Nuggets- though as I said- SGA is not near the level- nor do i expect him to be Leonard, Dirk or Jokic.

 

[thunderc]

I can confidently say it is against the manifest weight of the evidence that he will join recent best players on an NBA championship team such as LeBron, Kobe, Curry, Durant, Garnett, as inner circle hall of famers. I think it highly highly unlikely he reach the heights of top 30-50 guys of all time such as Dirk, Jokic, Wade, Pierce, Allen, Giannis--- is it possible he is a hall of famer- but more on the level of 2nd or 3rd guys on championship teams like Love, Bosh, Draymond, Klay, Kyrie, Pau, Parker, Ginobiili?

does anyone think SGA is on a hall of fame tract? I think the best anyone could say is "maybe if things go well"- let alone a high level hall of fame talent.

just looking at the last 20+ years of the NBA- it is almost guaranteed you need a high level hall of famer to win- and at least another hall of famer or two. The Thunder had 3 probable hall of famers at one time and never won it.

I certainly do not think SGA, Giddey, Williams, Holmgren will get there---- but again- I will not say its impossible as some teams that were not "great" have won in the last 20 years like the Mavs, Raptors, Nuggets- though as I said- SGA is not near the level- nor do i expect him to be Leonard, Dirk or Jokic.

You are back to being your idiotic self, welcome. The fact that you just used the word probable for 3 lead pipe cinch hall of famers speaks to that.

 

[trojanfan12]

He's this bad now, wait until they win a 'ship in the next couple years

He'll probably end up getting @dtgold88 banned again.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Obviously there are no guarantees, as fans we take what we can get. As fans we all get to choose what we want to respect though. In the end yes, it’s scoreboard, but there is something to be said about being competitive over long periods, especially for small markets. It’s the same debate as comparing players that don’t have titles. Go ahead and try to convince knowledgable people that players like Ewing, Barkley and Malone weren’t elite. It can’t be done.

Sure but in the end none of that matters if your team doesn’t win a championship. A great treat to watch great players but without that trophy it isn’t enough for diehard fans

 

[msgkings322]

Sure but in the end none of that matters if your team doesn’t win a championship. A great treat to watch great players but without that trophy it isn’t enough for diehard fans

Eh...diehard fans to me are the ones who watch no matter what, who enjoy their teams even in years they don't win. But that might be only after they have won some.

That's where I am as a Warriors fan, I still enjoy the season knowing they aren't winning a title this year. There are great games, emerging young players, getting to still watch the greatest shooter ever, etc. But I'm sure if they were still looking for a ring I'd be watching with a different attitude.

Then again OKC has never won and even if they don't this year, thunderc seems to be really into it. And he's as diehard as they come.

 

[thunderc]

Eh...diehard fans to me are the ones who watch no matter what, who enjoy their teams even in years they don't win. But that might be only after they have won some.

That's where I am as a Warriors fan, I still enjoy the season knowing they aren't winning a title this year. There are great games, emerging young players, getting to still watch the greatest shooter ever, etc. But I'm sure if they were still looking for a ring I'd be watching with a different attitude.

Then again OKC has never won and even if they don't this year, thunderc seems to be really into it. And he's as diehard as they come.

Agreed. And even though the Thunder haven’t won a title I kind of have to take that approach with this season. The first step when you have bottomed out is to get relevant and competitive again. Mission accomplished in spades. Sure I’m hopeful for a lot more and it’s absolutely possible no matter what has happened to young teams in the past. But they are ahead of schedule, way ahead in fact. The team wants more, let’s go.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I mean, this isn't really true....the 14-4 stretch without Garland was not really better than the 8-1 stretch after his return (now 8-2).

Higher % of close wins without garland than close wins since his return. Lost to a bad team without him but none with him back. One blowout loss without him (though DM missed the game, too) and worse loss with him back was last night by 7.

as is so often the case too much being made about 1 loss. I mean, didn't we also beat Orlando with Garland (maybe twice, but not sure)? Looking at Cavs' forums today seems Garland must go to the bench, the team is soft, JB cannot coach, etc (realize you didn't say all these things). Extreme overreactions.....and missing our best player.

all that said, I'm not sure who comes out first but does seem like much of the game DG and DM are not in together. He only makes sure 1 of them (and 1 of Allen/Mobley) is in at all times when healthy.

Oh, and despite him not being able to guard a fly we remain one of the elite defenses this year.

It absolutely is true. I have see years of it. No denying it. Now that Garland’s shot is off and right now is not the better distributor-he isn’t nearly as valuable. Things could change hopefully.
Did you watch down the stretch? They attack Garland. Put him on a switch. Garland puts his arm out then goes to the other man. He is a liability on defense whether the effort is there or not. He is also not the guy you want to take the last shot or in the clutch. I have numbers to back that up as well. Last night there was a lot of issues and at times Garland made the right play and limited TO’s. In the grand scheme, he works better overall without Mitchell on the floor.
He doesn’t need to go to the bench—he needs to play mainly with the second unit. He can start in the 1st. The sooner JB realizes this the better and it would not be ideal in crunch time to have Garland in the game. More suited for a floor spreader who can play defense. I have watched these Garland Cavs for a long time and the consistency is not there. I want go believe it will work but the eye test says otherwise.

Everyone always mentions, “despite Garland the defense is still elite” and I really don’t care. In crunch time basketball is a 1-on-1 game and they will go at Garland every possession like last game. We aren’t talking about the other issues but this is just one change among more chances. So I won’t act like there are other issues.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Eh...diehard fans to me are the ones who watch no matter what, who enjoy their teams even in years they don't win. But that might be only after they have won some.

That's where I am as a Warriors fan, I still enjoy the season knowing they aren't winning a title this year. There are great games, emerging young players, getting to still watch the greatest shooter ever, etc. But I'm sure if they were still looking for a ring I'd be watching with a different attitude.

Then again OKC has never won and even if they don't this year, thunderc seems to be really into it. And he's as diehard as they come.

Who said that said fan would not watch or enjoy the season anyway?

But this OKC fan is acting like OKC has done something great over the past 10-15 years and built a different way. A lot of great players. No championships.

You can’t tell me this Warriors team isn’t the same without championships.

I was watching games when they were bad for years so I think it is a given a diehard fan will watch games when bad or good

 

[bksballer89]

Cavs fans fighting

 

[thunderc]

Who said that said fan would not watch or enjoy the season anyway?

But this OKC fan is acting like OKC has done something great over the past 10-15 years and built a different way. A lot of great players. No championships.

You can’t tell me this Warriors team isn’t the same without championships.

I was watching games when they were bad for years so I think it is a given a diehard fan will watch games when bad or good

I said the Thunder are on a path to have been Uber competitive over a long period (20 years or more) with a brief break in the middle. And as a small market. Yes that is what I said. Tell me that’s not accurate. Go ahead.

 

[msgkings322]

Who said that said fan would not watch or enjoy the season anyway?

That was in response to you saying "without that trophy it isn’t enough for diehard fans"...my point is a season without a trophy can definitely be 'enough'

But this OKC fan is acting like OKC has done something great over the past 10-15 years and built a different way. A lot of great players. No championships.

Well yeah thunder has gone over the top homer lately, he's excited about what's happening and why shouldn't he be? So he says some crazy stuff, more fun for us!

You can’t tell me this Warriors team isn’t the same without championships.

When did I say that? In fact I kinda said the opposite, I'd be a very different fan if they were still looking for one instead of having just delivered the literal best decade a fan could ask for. That's why I'm unbothered by attempts to troll talking about Klay's decline or Wiseman's bust or whatever. I'm the guy who's really full after a big buffet, it's ok if I'm not getting more food for now.

I was watching games when they were bad for years so I think it is a given a diehard fan will watch games when bad or good

Sure, of course

 

[bksballer89]

No reason to not get a top 5 seed

 

[Shanemansj13]

Cavs fans fighting

Not fighting, just throwing some truthers out here.

One more truther:

OKC wins the next 8 championships

 

[trojanfan12]

Cavs fans fighting

 

[Shanemansj13]

That was in response to you saying "without that trophy it isn’t enough for diehard fans"...my point is a season without a trophy can definitely be 'enough'

Well yeah thunder has gone over the top homer lately, he's excited about what's happening and why shouldn't he be? So he says some crazy stuff, more fun for us!

When did I say that? In fact I kinda said the opposite, I'd be a very different fan if they were still looking for one instead of having just delivered the literal best decade a fan could ask for. That's why I'm unbothered by attempts to troll talking about Klay's decline or Wiseman's bust or whatever. I'm the guy who's really full after a big buffet, it's ok if I'm not getting more food for now.

Sure, of course

Agree with all except the bold. That will depend on expectations. Right now OKC has no expectations. Getting a 1 or 2 seed with change those expectations but not this year imo. Next year they could be a favorite and that is when you are the hunted. A different ballgame.

Also, at some point during a rebuild you do expect a championship or at least a chance at one depending the trajectory of the team and roster. If the expectations are the same for Thunder then just enjoying this team won't be enough when it's all said and done

 

[The Q]

No reason to not get a top 5 seed

Just send Philly home

 

[The Q]

Agree with all except the bold. That will depend on expectations. Right now OKC has no expectations. Getting a 1 or 2 seed with change those expectations but not this year imo. Next year they could be a favorite and that is when you are the hunted. A different ballgame.

Also, at some point during a rebuild you do expect a championship or at least a chance at one depending the trajectory of the team and roster. If the expectations are the same for Thunder then just enjoying this team won't be enough when it's all said and done

This summer they need to start leveraging those picks for the final pieces