The 2 MVP's that were taken from Lebron

[Mr. Friscus]

People who follow NBA history know that MVP fatigue is a thing. Each player has unique circumstances, and only a handful of players run into the phenomenon because they win so many. That list includes Lebron, MJ, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russell, and the most recent example being Jokic (although it was primarily his race that caused him one of his MVP's)

In some discussions, Lebron is said to "only" have 4 MVP's. Most NBA fans have known that Lebron was the best player in the league from roughly the mid 2000's until the mid 2010's. As for the MVP award, it's always been tough to truly define. Does it go to the best player? The best player on the best regular season team? The player who means the most to his team even if the team is average? There are examples of all 3 throughout history.

However, in regards to Lebron, he ought to be a 6 time MVP. Here's the 2 that were taken from him. I'll be looking at stats (including win shares), team success, team support, etc.

If you're unfamiliar with Win Shares, Win Shares is a player statistic which attempts to divvy up credit for team success to the individuals on the team, calculated using player, team and league-wide statistics and the sum of player win shares on a given team will be roughly equal to that team’s win total for the season. Kareem had the highest win-share of all time during his 1971-72 season at 25.4.

But anyways, back to looking at the 2 years Lebron was snubbed as MVP.

1. 2010-2011
Winner: Derrick Rose of the Chicago Bulls.

Stats:
Rose: 25ppg, 4.1 rebounds ,7.7 assists, 13.1 win shares
Lebron: 26.7ppg, 7.5 rebounds, 7.0 assists, 15.6 Win shares

Teams:
Bulls (62-20): PG Rose, SG Kyle Korver, SF Luol Deng, PF Carlos Boozer, C Kurt Thomas
Heat (58-24): PG Arroyo, SG Wade, SF James, PF Bosh, C Ilgauskus

Additional: The Bulls had the #1 D in the NBA which Rose had little to do with, as they were only 2.7 points per possession per 100 worse with Rose on the Bench. Their offense was 11th. This was largely a blowblack against Lebron for his "Decision" to "take his talents to south beach". He deserved the award, but like so many times in sports history, sensitive, dramatic sports writers got emotional and voted against someone rather than objectively selecting the most deserving player. One could say Lebron had a lot of help in Wade and Bosh, and in other years there may have been someone who could buck him. However, this year there really wasn't a viable alternative, maybe Dwight Howard but not really.

2007-2008
Winner: Kobe Bryant of the LA Lakers

Stats:
Kobe: 28.3 PPG, 6.3 rebounds, 5.4 assists, 13.8 win shares
Lebron: 30ppg, 7.9 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 15.2 win shares

Teams:
Lakers (57-25) PG Fisher, SG Bryant, SF Ariza, PF Odom, C Bynum
Cavs (45-37) PG James, SG Hughes, SF Pavlovic, PF Gooden, C Ilgauskus

Additional: James won the scoring title, had an inferior cast, better efficiency numbers. The Lakers were 8.6 points per 100 possessions worse without Bryant, the Cavs 10.9 points per 100 worse without James. The Lakers won more games, but they also had all-star quality players such as Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum, both better than anything Cleveland had

 

[tlance]

Erase the BS line about race and this would be a really good post.

I don’t agree LeBron should have won over Kobe strictly because of team record, but he was clearly the best player in the league that season.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Erase the BS line about race and this would be a really good post.

I don’t agree LeBron should have won over Kobe strictly because of team record, but he was clearly the best player in the league that season.

I can't say your take is some insanely wrong one, it depends on what you're looking at. My contention would be that if you took Kobe off the Lakers, they'd still have Bynum, Odom, and some good seasoned role players, and the team would win 40+ games. If you took Lebron off those Cavs... that team isn't winning above 30 games.

And, there's multiple observable metrics to prove that Lebron meant more to the Cavs success than Kobe did to the Lakers.
1. Win shares (which I already mentioned)
2. Player efficiency rating: Lebron's this season was first in the league at 29.14, Kobes was second, but at a distant 25.22.
3. Plus-minus as far as when they are on the floor vs. off the floor: Lebron was 2nd with +11.65, Kobe was way back at +3.0

Lebron dominates him in all categories.

I think what happened here is that Kobe likely deserved one of the 2 MVP's Steve Nash got (I think it was Nash's 2nd one), and to make up for it the voters felt they had to get Kobe an MVP, which turned out to be his only MVP. While this seems petty, all sports have MVP issues like this laced throughout their history.

 

[tlance]

I can't say your take is some insanely wrong one, it depends on what you're looking at. My contention would be that if you took Kobe off the Lakers, they'd still have Bynum, Odom, and some good seasoned role players, and the team would win 40+ games. If you took Lebron off those Cavs... that team isn't winning above 30 games.

And, there's multiple observable metrics to prove that Lebron meant more to the Cavs success than Kobe did to the Lakers.
1. Win shares (which I already mentioned)
2. Player efficiency rating: Lebron's this season was first in the league at 29.14, Kobes was second, but at a distant 25.22.
3. Plus-minus as far as when they are on the floor vs. off the floor: Lebron was 2nd with +11.65, Kobe was way back at +3.0

Lebron dominates him in all categories.

I think what happened here is that Kobe likely deserved one of the 2 MVP's Steve Nash got (I think it was Nash's 2nd one), and to make up for it the voters felt they had to get Kobe an MVP, which turned out to be his only MVP. While this seems petty, all sports have MVP issues like this laced throughout their history.

There is no doubt that LeBron was far more impactful that year.

But players from 45 win teams don’t tend to get MVP consideration.

Ironically, one of Jokic’s came in a similar situation. But there wasn’t another candidate with Kobe’s resume that year.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

There is no doubt that LeBron was far more impactful that year.

But players from 45 win teams don’t tend to get MVP consideration.

Ironically, one of Jokic’s came in a similar situation. But there wasn’t another candidate with Kobe’s resume that year.

Westbrook won MVP with under 50 wins recently, averaging a triple double. Jokic is doing so with more impressive numbers

 

[tlance]

Westbrook won MVP with under 50 wins recently, averaging a triple double. Jokic is doing so with more impressive numbers

And that was garbage.

I was one of the few here speaking out against him winning it. Was very clearly stat padding and playing inefficiently.

He got it because of the novelty of the triple double. Now it has happened a few times recently.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

And that was garbage.

I was one of the few here speaking out against him winning it. Was very clearly stat padding and playing inefficiently.

He got it because of the novelty of the triple double. Now it has happened a few times recently.

You’re definitely right about the triple double novelty. I saw a YouTube analysis of Westbrook vs Harden that year and while Harden didn’t have the round numbers. As much as I don’t respect his style, he deserved it more

 

[Old Sweater]

Chris Paul has a case too among others.

2007-2008 Voting Results
Scroll |>>>>><<<<<|

				Voti					Per						Shoo			Adva
Rank	Player	Age	Tm	First	Pts Won	Pts Max	Share	G	MP	PTS	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	FG%	3P%	FT%	WS	WS/48
1	Kobe Bryant	29	LAL	82	1100	1260	0.873	82	38.9	28.3	6.3	5.4	1.8	0.5	.459	.361	.840	13.8	.208
2	Chris Paul	22	NOH	28	894	1260	0.710	80	37.6	21.1	4.0	11.6	2.7	0.1	.488	.369	.851	17.8	.284
3	Kevin Garnett	31	BOS	15	670	1260	0.532	71	32.8	18.8	9.2	3.4	1.4	1.3	.539	.000	.801	12.9	.265
4	LeBron James	23	CLE	1	438	1260	0.348	75	40.4	30.0	7.9	7.2	1.8	1.1	.484	.315	.712	15.2	.242
5	Dwight Howard	22	ORL	0	60	1260	0.048	82	37.7	20.7	14.2	1.3	0.9	2.1	.599	.000	.590	12.9	.200
6	Amare Stoudemire	25	PHO	0	27	1260	0.021	79	33.9	25.2	9.1	1.5	0.8	2.1	.590	.161	.805	14.6	.262
7	Tim Duncan	31	SAS	0	25	1260	0.020	78	34.0	19.3	11.3	2.8	0.7	1.9	.497	.000	.730	11.1	.201
8	Tracy McGrady	28	HOU	0	19	1260	0.015	66	37.0	21.6	5.1	5.9	1.0	0.5	.419	.292	.684	5.8	.115
9	Steve Nash	33	PHO	0	18	1260	0.014	81	34.3	16.9	3.5	11.1	0.7	0.1	.504	.470	.906	10.5	.181
10	Manu Ginobili	30	SAS	0	9	1260	0.007	74	31.1	19.5	4.8	4.5	1.5	0.4	.460	.401	.860	11.1	.232
11	Dirk Nowitzki	29	DAL	0	5	1260	0.004	77	36.0	23.6	8.6	3.5	0.7	0.9	.479	.359	.879	12.9	.223
12	Deron Williams	23	UTA	0	4	1260	0.003	82	37.3	18.8	3.0	10.5	1.1	0.3	.507	.395	.803	11.3	.177
13	Carmelo Anthony	23	DEN	0	3	1260	0.002	77	36.4	25.7	7.4	3.4	1.3	0.5	.492	.354	.786	8.2	.140
14T	Carlos Boozer	26	UTA	0	1	1260	0.001	81	34.9	21.1	10.4	2.9	1.2	0.5	.547	.000	.738	10.2	.173
14T	Antawn Jamison	31	WAS	0	1	1260	0.001	79	38.7	21.4	10.2	1.5	1.3	0.4	.436	.339	.760	9.2	.144
14T	Paul Pierce	30	BOS	0	1	1260	0.001	80	35.9	19.6	5.1	4.5	1.3	0.5	.464	.392	.843	12.4	.207
14T	Rasheed Wallace	33	DET	0	1	1260	0.001	77	30.5	12.7	6.6	1.8	1.2	1.7	.432	.356	.767	7.6	.155

[thead] [/thead]

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 3/18/2025.

2010-2011 Voting Results
Scroll |>>>>><<<<<|

				Voti					Per						Shoo			Adva
Rank	Player	Age	Tm	First	Pts Won	Pts Max	Share	G	MP	PTS	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	FG%	3P%	FT%	WS	WS/48
1	Derrick Rose	22	CHI	113	1182	1210	0.977	81	37.4	25.0	4.1	7.7	1.0	0.6	.445	.332	.858	13.1	.208
2	Dwight Howard	25	ORL	3	643	1210	0.531	78	37.6	22.9	14.1	1.4	1.4	2.4	.593	.000	.596	14.4	.235
3	LeBron James	26	MIA	4	522	1210	0.431	79	38.8	26.7	7.5	7.0	1.6	0.6	.510	.330	.759	15.6	.244
4	Kobe Bryant	32	LAL	1	428	1210	0.354	82	33.9	25.3	5.1	4.7	1.2	0.1	.451	.323	.828	10.3	.178
5	Kevin Durant	22	OKC	0	190	1210	0.157	78	38.9	27.7	6.8	2.7	1.1	1.0	.462	.350	.880	12.0	.189
6	Dirk Nowitzki	32	DAL	0	113	1210	0.093	73	34.3	23.0	7.0	2.6	0.5	0.6	.517	.393	.892	11.1	.213
7	Dwyane Wade	29	MIA	0	24	1210	0.020	76	37.1	25.5	6.4	4.6	1.5	1.1	.500	.306	.758	12.8	.218
8	Manu Ginobili	33	SAS	0	20	1210	0.017	80	30.3	17.4	3.7	4.9	1.5	0.4	.433	.349	.871	9.9	.195
9	Amare Stoudemire	28	NYK	0	9	1210	0.007	78	36.8	25.3	8.2	2.6	0.9	1.9	.502	.435	.792	8.0	.134
10T	Blake Griffin	21	LAC	0	5	1210	0.004	82	38.0	22.5	12.1	3.8	0.8	0.5	.506	.292	.642	9.8	.152
10T	Rajon Rondo	24	BOS	0	5	1210	0.004	68	37.2	10.6	4.4	11.2	2.3	0.2	.475	.233	.568	6.6	.126
12	Tony Parker	28	SAS	0	3	1210	0.002	78	32.4	17.5	3.1	6.6	1.2	0.0	.519	.357	.769	8.2	.156
13	Chris Paul	25	NOH	0	2	1210	0.002	80	36.0	15.9	4.1	9.8	2.4	0.1	.463	.388	.878	13.9	.232

[thead] [/thead]

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 3/18/2025.